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Will DressageWorld ever get OTTB or TB shows as HunterWorld is?

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  • Will DressageWorld ever get OTTB or TB shows as HunterWorld is?

    I'd love that.

    I'm old enough to remember when HunterWorld has "affirmative action" divisions for the dumbloods (or at least Non-Thoroughbreds). Now the TB and OTTB is the minority there. That's too bad for so many reasons.

    Even in Dressage World, I'd love to have a great-minded TB as a partner, especially because so much of making a successful show horse is that long term relationship you develop with a horse.

    So is there interest? Hope?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

  • #2
    Why does a TB need an "affirmative action" class ? A good horse is a good horse. Pick out a good horse that's suitable and I doubt anyone could tell the difference.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmm, I am going to a thoroughbred-specific show in April and there will be dressage there

      But I would love points/ribbons/awards for Thoroughbreds like they have for warmbloods.

      Comment


      • #4
        There's nothing stopping you! RMDS offers year-end awards for several breeds, including TBs. Several of our shows also offer championships or high point awards for individual breeds.

        Check with your own dressage organizations and shows. I'll bet they offer awards programs for TB's, too.

        I haven't heard the unkind appellation "Dumbblood" in ages.

        Comment


        • #5
          HAHA, my bo used "dumbbood" the other day, she's a warmblood owner herself. However it was in reference to my trainers mare who not only ran herself skinny, but ran her hooves down because there are free range cows that come across the property twice a day. (mind you theyve been there since mid dec!) She's even in with my gelding who could care less about cows. I don't think he knows they exist.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
            Why does a TB need an "affirmative action" class ? A good horse is a good horse. Pick out a good horse that's suitable and I doubt anyone could tell the difference.
            It's not affirmative action. More like a breed show celebrating the TB. These shows have been going on for maybe a couple of years as H/J shows, and successfully, too.

            There probably aren't enough TBs around here actually showing to fill a dressage-only show, but I hope dressage is added to the TB shows a la IEL.
            Last edited by Bristol Bay; Mar. 5, 2013, 11:09 AM. Reason: Stoopid autocorrect to shoes for shows
            A helmet saved my life.

            2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mvp View Post
              I'm old enough to remember when HunterWorld has "affirmative action" divisions for the dumbloods...
              That's kind of a loaded word for the dressage forum. Just sayin'.
              A helmet saved my life.

              2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by ThreeFigs View Post
                I haven't heard the unkind appellation "Dumbblood" in ages.
                I know! It was a breedist time back in the early 1990s. Maybe we have matured as a society. I bred a DWB for the hunter ring then precisely because I thought folks had really underestimated the value of the WB mind. This horse was ammy friendly from the get-go.
                The armchair saddler
                Politically Pro-Cat

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bristol Bay View Post
                  It's not affirmative action. More like a breed show celebrating the TB. These shoes have been going on for maybe a couple of years as H/J shows, and successfully, too.

                  There probably aren't enough TBs around here actually showing to fill a dressage-only show, but I hope dressage is added to the TB shows a la IEL.
                  I call it "affirmative action" because in HunterWorld, the WBs at the time didn't have a lot of TB blood in them and (IMO) judges didn't quite know what to do with them. They did some aspects of the hunter's job really well and didn't do other parts like the TB that had set the standard.

                  I wonder if that's now true in reverse for DressageWorld. Many TBs will be correct and rideable while being flatter movers than the WBs bred for big gaits.

                  When I was a kid, horses were judged against an absolute standard. You could ride the most off-breed grade horse and he was compared to an ideal. IME, that really has changed: Start with a horse with expansive gaits and, whether or not he is superbly trained, you start ahead of the game.
                  The armchair saddler
                  Politically Pro-Cat

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    but. a well trained horse (or pony!) no matter what the breed - will do well.... the critical thing here is "well trained" and "well ridden" there are also All Breeds awards, and my guess is that there is one for TB's....

                    have you been to a dressage show lately?

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by mbm View Post
                      but. a well trained horse (or pony!) no matter what the breed - will do well.... the critical thing here is "well trained" and "well ridden" there are also All Breeds awards, and my guess is that there is one for TB's....

                      have you been to a dressage show lately?
                      As a matter of fact, I have been to a dressage show lately.

                      The horse I leased last year and the discussions I had with my trainer raised this question for me (in part).

                      The horse I rode was a hot (ho-ot) and somewhat fried Trakehner. He had an extravagant trot while helped my competitive purposes at lower levels. His canter was nothing to write home about. Had he not had that stunning trot, he would have been the worst of the TB stereotype.

                      I was testing him out as a horse I could get my bronze medal on. Everyone told me that if I wanted to do myself a favor, I should find the best mover I could. From there, I could only screw up rather than having to learn to ride and also ride so well that I could improve the gaits of a so-so mover. I was surprised and a little disappointed, since I was hoping to find a discipline that hadn't yet turned into Hunter World's "beauty contest."

                      My other inspiration for this thread/interest comes from the TB side of things.

                      Unlike in the 1990s, CANTER and similar organizations make is so much easier for OTTBs to get second careers.

                      And American racing has turned to sprinters which tend to be smaller and too short-strided for the modern hunter ring.

                      But who cares if your OTTB is 15.2 in Dressage World, so long as he has the goods in his body and between his ears? And I do love the Thoroughbred Try.
                      The armchair saddler
                      Politically Pro-Cat

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i am not sure i understand.... if you want to learn to ride/train dressage well and if you want to have fun at shows and get some medals- a TB would be fine - as there are may TBs out there that do well - you don't need a special TB only dressage event.... as there are awards already in place (all breeds??)

                        so i am confused -

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There are several dressage shows in this area that offer the TIP awards for best scoring TB. If you look on the TIP page there's a list. Shows can apply for next year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mvp View Post
                            I'd love that.

                            I'm old enough to remember when HunterWorld has "affirmative action" divisions for the dumbloods (or at least Non-Thoroughbreds). Now the TB and OTTB is the minority there. That's too bad for so many reasons.

                            Even in Dressage World, I'd love to have a great-minded TB as a partner, especially because so much of making a successful show horse is that long term relationship you develop with a horse.

                            So is there interest? Hope?
                            I was showing hunters in that era where almost all were TB's and the open classes were on the outside course over natural obstacles. I remember the Non-TB division as I had an Appendix that I competed in it. It was a well filled division they had even at the biggest shows.

                            I believe that if USEF/USDF offered TB only shows, like they do for Arabs and Morgans, that it just might help get homes for all the unwanted TB's that come off the track.

                            It's the rare TB that can compete with the warmbloods these days at shows, and frankly in my area its rare to see any at 3rd and above. Even though there are All-Breed awards, that is not the same as offering TB-Only classes. To be honest, I think the All-Breed awards are overkill and I agree with MBM that we have too many divisions for awards.

                            We already can see the rapid growing of the Western Dressage division that just may help QH's, Arabs, etc. get purchased now that there is another venue they may do well.
                            The same I believe could be true for TB's if there was a place they could compete on equal turf.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sponsor an award ... the JC isn't going to do it, and that's who is responsible for American Thoroughbred registration.

                              You might want to contact the North American Thoroughbred Society at http://www.hellohorse.com/ ... I think they may sponsor a high point award for those horses registered with them. (I haven't been in contact with the organization for several years, so am a bit out of date.)

                              Problem I ran into when I asked (on this forum a few years ago) about sponsoring an award is that TBs can be difficult to identify. Not all OTTBs come with their papers and getting them can be challenging. Additionally, there are TBs bred for sport that are NOT JC-registered. ...

                              And to add another twist, my young horse is a TB/Hanoverian cross ... I call her "half TB" rather than "half Hanoverian" because that's my bias, but she can only be registered with the AWS because her dam's owner doesn't have papers. I was told the dam was purpose bred for eventing so never JC'd ... and come to think of it, that's how warmblood registries evolved, yes?
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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Back in those breedist '90s, I think there was something called the Performance Horse Registry. The idea was to track successful TBs and TB blood within show hunters. Again, at the time, Americans had all sorts of TB mares lying around and it served them (as well as European stallion owners) to open their books to us.

                                The OTTB are I owned passed inspections with a few WB societies and I did my best to keep her bloodlines known. As a one-mare owner, I did on a small scale what the PHR hoped to do on a large scale. It was a good idea, helping to find and maintain the value of the TBs that contributed to good show horse offspring.

                                In any case, I'm so pleased that we are again trying to make it easier for OTTBs to find a second career. Yeah, fewer are being bred, but there still seems to be a big swamp of them to be soaked up after they are done racing.
                                The armchair saddler
                                Politically Pro-Cat

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by AllWeatherGal View Post
                                  Sponsor an award ... the JC isn't going to do it, and that's who is responsible for American Thoroughbred registration. ...

                                  . I was told the dam was purpose bred for eventing so never JC'd ... and come to think of it, that's how warmblood registries evolved, yes?
                                  Great idea! "Put your money where your mouth is," eh?

                                  You do have it right with respect to WB societies being committed to selective breeding (producing the 'purpose bred') horse. We like selective breeding here in our "market dominated" US of A, too. But that process takes a long time and a great deal of standardization that we haven't mastered here. Darn tootin' the WB societies keep track of the bloodlines as well. I don't know if European breeders *don't* register some of their lesser stock at all the way cattle breeders do. (IMO, there might be some information in the ratio of registered : non-registered and "invisible" offspring.) I don't think you can contrast a TB not registered with the JC because it was not bred to race with the program of selective breeding that the WB societies do. (I assume your event-bred TB has a certificate of pedigree from someone?)
                                  The armchair saddler
                                  Politically Pro-Cat

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    New Vocations has a charity horse show with hunter jumper and special TB only dressage classes as well as regular dressage. It's a really nice show - even tho I have an Arab, I've gone the last two years because it is such a nice show *and* I haul my friend's OTTB so she can show TB only dressage.

                                    http://www.horseadoption.com/charity-horse-show/

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      There are many shows that offer JC T.I.P awards.
                                      The list below is shows that offer PSG awards.


                                      JC Web site for their show calendar. http://tjctip.com/Default.asp?page=4



                                      Show Name

                                      Date

                                      Location

                                      Class - Awards

                                      City

                                      State

                                      Website



                                      Poplar Place Farm March Dressage Show

                                      3/9/2013

                                      Poplar Place Farm

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Hamilton

                                      GA

                                      visit



                                      Poplar Place April Dressage Show

                                      4/20/2013

                                      Poplar Place Farm

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Hamilton

                                      GA

                                      visit



                                      Dressage at Blue Goose Series

                                      5/15/2013

                                      Blue Goose Stable, LLC

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Cochranville

                                      PA

                                      visit



                                      Poplar Place Farm May Dressage Show

                                      5/18/2013

                                      Poplar Place Farm

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Hamilton

                                      GA

                                      visit



                                      KDA Spring WarmUp Show

                                      5/23/2013

                                      Kentucky Horse Park

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Lexington

                                      KY

                                      visit



                                      Windy Hollow Hunt Dressage June

                                      6/7/2013

                                      Sussex County Fair Grounds

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Augusta

                                      NJ

                                      visit



                                      Cooler By The Lake

                                      6/8/2013

                                      Bayfield County Fairgrounds

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Iron River

                                      WI

                                      visit



                                      The Tennessean Dressage

                                      6/9/2013

                                      Brownland Farm, 1155 Hillsboro Road

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Franklin

                                      TN

                                      visit



                                      Iowa Dressage Classics I and II

                                      6/15/2013

                                      Maffitt Lake Equestrian Center

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Cumming

                                      IA

                                      visit



                                      Poplar Place June Dressage Show

                                      6/15/2013

                                      Poplar Place Farm

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Hamilton

                                      GA

                                      visit



                                      Dressage at Blue Goose Series

                                      7/3/2013

                                      Blue Goose Stable, LLC

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Cochranville

                                      PA

                                      visit



                                      Dressage at the Park

                                      7/6/2013

                                      Horse Park of New Jersey

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Allentown

                                      NJ

                                      visit



                                      Windy Hollow Hunt Dressage July

                                      7/19/2013

                                      Sussex County Fair Grounds

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Augusta

                                      NJ

                                      visit



                                      Summer Recognized Dressage Show

                                      7/20/2013

                                      Bayfield County Fairgrounds

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Iron River

                                      WI

                                      visit



                                      Dressage at Blue Goose Series

                                      8/7/2013

                                      Blue Goose Stable, LLC

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Cochranville

                                      PA

                                      visit



                                      Fun in the Sun Schooling Show

                                      8/10/2013

                                      Bayfield County Fairgrounds

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Iron River

                                      WI

                                      visit



                                      Dressage at Stone Tavern

                                      8/30/2013

                                      Horse Park of New Jersey

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Allentown

                                      NJ

                                      visit



                                      Poplar Place Farm September Dressage Show

                                      9/7/2013

                                      Poplar Place Farm

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Hamilton

                                      GA

                                      visit



                                      Fall Classic Schooling Show

                                      9/14/2013

                                      Bayfield County Fairgrounds

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Iron River

                                      WI

                                      visit



                                      Horse Shows in the Park Dressage Show

                                      9/14/2013

                                      Longwood Farm South

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Ocala

                                      FL

                                      visit



                                      Atlanta Fall National Dressage & Region 3 GAIG/USDF Championships

                                      10/11/2013

                                      GA. International Horse Park, 1996 Centennial Olym

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Conyers

                                      GA

                                      visit



                                      KDA Fall Classic 1

                                      10/12/2013

                                      Kentucky Horse Park

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Lexington

                                      KY

                                      visit



                                      Poplar Place Farm October Dressage Show

                                      10/26/2013

                                      Poplar Place Farm

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Hamilton

                                      GA

                                      visit



                                      Poplar Place Farm November Dressage Show

                                      11/16/2013

                                      Poplar Place Farm

                                      Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

                                      Hamilton

                                      GA

                                      visit









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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                        (I assume your event-bred TB has a certificate of pedigree from someone?)
                                        Not that I've found.

                                        I received her AWS registry papers, but they pretty much take the word of whoever is completing the application as far as I can tell. The papers show her dam as Silk Air out of Woven Air x Peterhof; her sire is Private Dancer (Hanoverian: Evening Lace x Pik Solo).

                                        I called my girl's breeder who said the mare (her dam) was given to her without papers. I have no idea what to make of it or how to proceed, except to love and enjoy. And since she's registered, if it comes to all-breed awards, at least she's eligible.
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