• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less


  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Well many others have said the same thing.

    The matter is likely in the hands of lawyers now rather than with GS and where there is uncertainty, it is safer to have a court order compelling production of the documents in issue..

    If the records are relevant, they will be disclosed whether by agreemnet or by court order. I'm surprised this was not dealt with in pre trial discovery of documents.


    • #42
      Originally posted by NCRider View Post
      If the question of whO has a legal right to the records were in doubt (I.e. the identity of the owner or client) then if i were the vet, there's no way I would release records without a court order for fear that I'd expose myself to liability from the other party to the suit who didnt want the records released. Seems better to let the court sort it out and then release with the protection of the court order.
      Agreed. But if that was the vet's honest reaction, then his attorney should have filed an action for declaratory relief. It askes the court to make a declaration as to what the status of the parties is. Once the court does this, the vet is cleared of liability if he follows the Court's order. Such a request for delaratory relief is commonly used in such ambiguous situations

      Since he apparently has not asked the Court for guidance, but, instead has just refused to hand over the horse's records, it makes it look like he is part of the problem, not a neutral 3rd party caught in the middle.
      "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

      Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump


      • #43
        Originally posted by ponypappy
        If you look at the court documents. The parties involved have been trying to obtain copies of the records since July of last year. I don't get why they can't have copies of records they submitted bills of sale on. What if there was insurance on the horses, would the insurance company have to sue also? Does anyone know what Dr. Staller's relationship to Parra barn is?
        Have you red any of the other posts on this thread? They give plenty of reasons.
        Originally posted by Silverbridge
        If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.


        • #44
          The subpoena requesting the vet record was withdrawn on nov. 30th 2012.

          Since then, no more subpoena.

          The Morgans only own the horse by 55%, the rest is own by C.P.

          And C.P. was in charge, as per the bill of sale, of the care and the well-being of the horse and had to consult for major decisions.

          Enough reasons for the vet not to release the douments until asked by a judge.
          ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

          Originally posted by LauraKY
          I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
          HORSING mobile training app


          • #45
            Greg Staller is a stand-up, ethical person as well as a great veterinarian and I'm sure he's following the letter of the law.


            • #46
              The vet in this case is acting exactly how I would anticipate any professional service provider to act-he's waiting for the court. I certainly wouldn't expect him to do anything that requires additional expenditure on his part to expedite the resolution of the issue so that the plaintiff can get the records faster. that's not his job.
              I know the plaintiff's are probably hoping they can get at them by putting professional pressure on the vet's reputation, but he's right to wait for the court.


              • #47
                Originally posted by currycomb321 View Post
                Greg Staller is a stand-up, ethical person as well as a great veterinarian and I'm sure he's following the letter of the law.
                I agree with the above!! I first met Greg when he started his own practice and used him until I moved away and was too far away from him. About 3 years ago I actually hauled a horse 2 hours to him....that's what a good vet I think he is. And definitely stand up and I, IMHO, would not think he would do anything to screw up his own career.
                I am about to vet a horse this week and one of the questions asked for the PPE is do I want the findings shared with the owner . Since I am doing the PPE and paying...the records are mine and owner is not entitled to them without me allowing it!
                Last edited by Parrotnutz; Mar. 21, 2013, 04:31 PM. Reason: spelling
                Happily retired but used to be:


                • #48
                  Originally posted by ponypappy
                  I read it as the subpoena was withdrawn in the Parra case. This is a lawsuit against Dr. Staller. How do you know there are no more subpoena's? You did sort of point out what I don't like about this case. The owners own 55% of the horse.
                  ponypappy-why do you care? Do you know the plaintiffs? We have 2 pages of people indicating that they'd do exactly what this vet is doing in this case and you still won't let it go. What's your point?


                  • #49
                    I don't care


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by NCRider View Post
                      ponypappy-why do you care? Do you know the plaintiffs? We have 2 pages of people indicating that they'd do exactly what this vet is doing in this case and you still won't let it go. What's your point?
                      Ponypappy is allowed to have a different opinion is she not? I for one see her point of view. Did everyone read the Exhibits.

                      Forget about the Parra-Jackson case for the time being. Doesn't the owner of a horse have a right to the vet records? Does an owner have to hire an attorney or go to court to get vet records if their trainer called in a vet? That's ridiculous.

                      The Jackson's have provided twice (or more) solid documentation that they owned these horses during a certain time frame which is the time frame they want the records for.
                      Last edited by Moderator 1; Mar. 22, 2013, 08:37 AM. Reason: change link format to fix page formatting


                      • #51
                        What is your comment supposed to mean CrockPot? PP said that he/she does not care who the plaintiffs are, it is the process of the law that he/she cares about? Do you? Otherwise are you just taking sides for the entertainment value. Read the documents if you can.
                        "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by ponypappy
                          I don't care and I do not know the plaintiffs but I DID READ THE DOCUMENTS. I am no lawyer but people keep putting things out there that are inaccurate. I do not think I am not letting it go anymore than you are. My point is READ THE DOCUMENTS so we call all make an informed decision. I am really a EM fan but I find Dr. Parra and his antics almost as bad.
                          Why dont YOU read them? Exhibit E
                          ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                          Originally posted by LauraKY
                          I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                          HORSING mobile training app


                          • #53
                            Ponypappy-You seem to be a one trick pony. Time for turn out!!!
                            Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                            Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by ponypappy
                              You are right merrygoround. Reading comprehension seems to be like "beating a dead horse". I think I will turn my attention the most recent post on the other Parra thread.
                              Funny you should use "reading comprehension" in your post...
                              Originally posted by Silverbridge
                              If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.


                              • #55
                                I haven't read all the court documents but is it possible that those records are being used/involved in the other case regarding the horse and so the vet can't release them? I know for a PPE the person who pays is the client and they have to give permission. Ownership doesn't matter.


                                • #56
                                  I was at a seminar last night given by a well respected New Jersey vet. I asked him if a horse owner hired a trainer to take complete responsibility for their horse, and if the trainer hired the him, the vet, to do work on that horse; would he, the vet, release medical documents to the owner without a release from the trainer. He said that his client was the trainer and he could not release documents to the owner with out a release. He went on to say that that situation would be a huge red flag to him, and the contract between the owner and the trainer should always include a release of medial documents. He went on to say that if you are considering the purchase of a horse, you should always ask for a medical release, because he could not release information to a new owner. If a seller will not give a release to a new owner it should be a red flag to the buyer.

                                  I did not go into anymore detail as this was a seminar and I did not want to derail, but he seemed to know what I was talking about.