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A futile attempt at communication (PP related)

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  • #41
    Originally posted by ThreeFigs View Post
    Wasn't Karin Rohlf the one with the Dressage Pool Noodles?
    Yup. Here they are: http://dressagenaturally.net/photos-videos/videos

    Comment


    • #42
      Lady E I think I have you all beat. Watched someone pay 100 an hour for a lesson and then when the horse came to halt a bit too quickly from trot/jog she promptly toppled over his shoulder onto the ground.

      Crawling back onto her feet. "Did you see him!? What did he spook at!?"

      Luckily big name trainer also no good at english just stood there waiting for her check rather than say anything at all.

      Ok second one at the same place same trainer a gal is trying to mount her horse for long long minutes finally she takes a whip to the horse and the horse kicks her in the hand and she sounds like a cat being skinned alive, swears its broken we all hold our phones out ready to dial 911.

      Finally, with three people helping her mount her very irate import who is fire breathing dragon on a hot sunny day after a lunge she rides around telling us about 52 times a minute how she will, "Ride through the pain!" Everyone tells me and my friend how much money she has dumped on gear, horse, trainer, trailer, clothes... By the time we leave we all feel so poor but pet our horses for the fact that they in fact do not try and cripple us before our rides LOL

      After all of the blustering I ran into her at a show many months later expecting to see her in tails. I walk up to the side of the arena to see her on the same dragon horse doing TL test 3.
      ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
      http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #43
        ... DOUBLE POST
        ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
        http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • #44
          <<cat being skinned alive>>

          YOU OWE ME A KEYBOARD!!!!!

          Maybe we start a chain of "DQ Pony Camps!" That would employ an awful lot of elderly, patient, saintly horses . . .

          Yeah, it's funny; except it isn't. This is what's happening to our sports. And when there are No Basics, there ain't gonna be much else except unhappiness and, ultimately, un-participation.

          It's not just us; it's what's happening all over America.

          Comment


          • #45
            Jesus Christ on a cracker. You don't like the quality of riders out there? Start teaching. You don't like the quality of horseperson in your area? Help them out. Making fun of someone's perceived ignorance is just petty.

            Comment


            • #46
              I felt I was making more fun of an idea. You have to dump tons of money and buy an import for training level? You have to pay 100 an hour to stay on without falling at halt?

              Its an insane place at times this dressage land LOL
              ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
              http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                <<cat being skinned alive>>

                YOU OWE ME A KEYBOARD!!!!!

                Maybe we start a chain of "DQ Pony Camps!" That would employ an awful lot of elderly, patient, saintly horses . . .

                Yeah, it's funny; except it isn't. This is what's happening to our sports. And when there are No Basics, there ain't gonna be much else except unhappiness and, ultimately, un-participation.

                It's not just us; it's what's happening all over America.
                Wel its a wonder we dont need these helmets to be forced upon us while tacking up at shows! Ive never seen so many ill fitted horse and riders! I think the hunter people and breed prople are so much more reasonable about fitting people to the horse.

                I know Ive been overhorsed before plenty and I'd have been darned to show up at a clinic to actually pay to give THEM a story for coth! lol
                ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #48
                  I don't see too tight nosebands, or spur marks here. And look, she gets on her Olympic event horse bareback and with a neck rope!

                  http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...ng-becomes-art
                  RIP my beautiful Lola, ????–August 29, 2014

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Mozart View Post
                    So what would NH bring to the programs of Edward Gal, Isabel Werth, Carl Hester, Ingrid Klimke, etc? They seem to do all right without NH.


                    Originally posted by Mozart View Post
                    But we are talking about dressage, the FEI discipline, are we not?
                    Well, yes. But what about the 99.99999% of the dressage world that doesn't compete internationally? Would some of them perhaps benefit from teaching their horses better ground manners? From my perspective, yes. Make that hell, yes. With some of them, the horse can do a canter pirouette and but forget about everything else.

                    And I don't care if they use Parelli or CA or they go back and audit Pony Club. Just teach your horse some manners so he leads like a gentleman and doesn't try to run over you (or me). And he'll stand quietly to be tacked up and for mounting. And all the other things that somehow got lost or unlearned in the quest for a medal.

                    They might even end up with better scores because the horse will start looking to his owner for direction at all times, not just when he's got a saddle on his back and a bit in his mouth. But even if they don't, anyone who handles their horses on the ground will be a LOT better off.


                    Originally posted by cnm161 View Post
                    Jesus Christ on a cracker. You don't like the quality of riders out there? Start teaching.
                    You'd wish THAT on someone?
                    __________________________
                    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                    the best day in ten years,
                    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #50
                      Originally posted by BigBayHanoMare View Post
                      I don't see too tight nosebands, or spur marks here. And look, she gets on her Olympic event horse bareback and with a neck rope!

                      http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...ng-becomes-art
                      She is NOT the average AA middle aged lady who buys a PSG horse hoping to show 3rd level..... someday.

                      BBHM, perhaps you do not work in the industry. Anyone with any kind of significant mileage grooming for riders of any significant level will likely have witnessed a multitude of sins. Cranked-to-death nosebands (now with gel pads, etc) is so common it is ubiquitous in competitive dressage.
                      "Friend" me !

                      http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        Originally posted by cnm161 View Post
                        Jesus Christ on a cracker. You don't like the quality of riders out there? Start teaching. You don't like the quality of horseperson in your area? Help them out. Making fun of someone's perceived ignorance is just petty.
                        Ahh.... that's like saying if I don't like the American diet I should open a health food store. Except.... modern people have been conditioned to view themselves as CONSUMERS above all else. Consumers of premade, ready-to-use products. They support and consume McDonalds, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut. Try selling organic, free trade sprout sandwiches made by employees paid a living wage, and see how far you get with that business model.... Even if you managed to pull off one little boutique sandwich shop in San Francisco, it would never get as big as McDonalds.

                        Successful instructors are (more and more often) like successful business folks everywhere. They are successful at the business, not at the art. Donald Trump is good at deal making, he is not an architect or engineer.
                        "Friend" me !

                        http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by alicen View Post
                          Sorry. I couldn't help but notice the phallic thing going on there....lol

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            You're right, of course, that dressage trainers are the McDonalds of the equestrian world. Cheap, plentiful, and standardized.

                            Wait, hang on, that's not quite right.

                            Now, I've seen some unscrupulous dealings in this dressage scene. Trainers pushing horses on clients who aren't nearly ready for it. And I've seen the other side of it-- Amateurs throwing money away horse after horse and ignoring their trainers' (more than one) advice. This particular malady isn't discipline-specific by a long shot. But I don't think that the solution to perceived poor dressage/sportsmanship/horsemanship/eating habits in the US is to bitch about it on a BB.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Calamber View Post
                              Truthfully, I would like to see any one of them ride an upper level test without the double bridle. Not quite a naked horse but as close as one could get and not get thrown out of the dressage arena. Whoever made it a "rule" that you had to ride with two freaking bits in a horses' mouth and light contact or no on the curb rein, why is it necessary at the upper levels?
                              Here you go.
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5XUq56P_I0 (Uta and Le Noir)
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMo-w69I0WA (Isabell and Satchmo)

                              Good horsepeople /riders aren't made by bits, bridles, and saddles -- and the "natural horsemanship" isn't necessarily indicative of good horsemanship. Skill sets and philosophy differ from person to person just as needs differ from horse to horse.
                              Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
                              http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
                              https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

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                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post

                                BBHM, perhaps you do not work in the industry. Anyone with any kind of significant mileage grooming for riders of any significant level will likely have witnessed a multitude of sins. Cranked-to-death nosebands (now with gel pads, etc) is so common it is ubiquitous in competitive dressage.
                                Once again, HOW do you know? WHO is doing this? What percentage of riders of "any significant level" are doing this?

                                You said or implied earlier that horses trained by Gal, Hester, Werth and Klimke are suffering excessively tight nosebands and spur marks. Where are the photos of the spur marks on Gal's (Hester's Werth's, Klimke's) horses? Have you put your fingers in their cavessons? And if you had put your fingers in their cavessons, how would you judge what is too tight? Anything snugger than flopping around?

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
                                  99% of the world is not those folks. And those other 99% of horses deserve good riders too.

                                  BUT, since you asked, I am sure they have, at one time or another, wanted to have a horse with not so tight of a noseband and not so obvious of a spur mark.

                                  And Ingrid Klimke is a bit more open minded about these things.
                                  Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
                                  She is NOT the average AA middle aged lady who buys a PSG horse hoping to show 3rd level..... someday.

                                  BBHM, perhaps you do not work in the industry. Anyone with any kind of significant mileage grooming for riders of any significant level will likely have witnessed a multitude of sins. Cranked-to-death nosebands (now with gel pads, etc) is so common it is ubiquitous in competitive dressage.
                                  I posted that link because of the first quote. I highly, HIGHLY doubt that Ingrid Klimke would "at one time or another, wanted to have a horse with not so tight of a noseband and not so obvious of a spur mark." You really think her father would let her ride like that? Or that she would dismay or shame her father by doing so now? She prefers to work with hot.

                                  No, she isn't your average AA. I actually DO work in the industry, have ridden for 95% of my life, and I have seen what you mention--cranked nosebands, whatever other sin you want to list. You know what I do, as an AA? (Lucky me to work in the industry--for a tack retailer--and still be an ammy) I vote with my feet and my money. Like dating, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

                                  Do your homework. Or ask for recommendations. Don't rant about it on a bulletin board.
                                  RIP my beautiful Lola, ????–August 29, 2014

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by DancingFoalFarms View Post
                                    Here you go.
                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5XUq56P_I0 (Uta and Le Nior)
                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMo-w69I0WA (Isabell and Satchmo)

                                    Good horsepeople /riders aren't made by bits, bridles, and saddles -- and natural horsemanship doesn't necessarily mean that all the adherents are good horsepeople / riders.
                                    Why thank you but I did say test, not training or playing. And, for another pet peeve of mine, Uta is swinging her leg way back and digging in the spurs, while I realize this is training and you have to drive from somewhere to get that elevation, can that damned swinging, digging spur heel just stop already! I see that in tests and it drives me nuts!
                                    "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by BigBayHanoMare View Post
                                      I posted that link because of the first quote. I highly, HIGHLY doubt that Ingrid Klimke would "at one time or another, wanted to have a horse with not so tight of a noseband and not so obvious of a spur mark." You really think her father would let her ride like that? Or that she would dismay or shame her father by doing so now? She prefers to work with hot.

                                      No, she isn't your average AA. I actually DO work in the industry, have ridden for 95% of my life, and I have seen what you mention--cranked nosebands, whatever other sin you want to list. You know what I do, as an AA? (Lucky me to work in the industry--for a tack retailer--and still be an ammy) I vote with my feet and my money. Like dating, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

                                      Do your homework. Or ask for recommendations. Don't rant about it on a bulletin board.
                                      It is called a discussion, so very sorry it irks you so much but that is what we humans do when we are communicating. Thanks for voting with your wallet but have a little courage and speak up about it would be of even greater value overall.
                                      "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Calamber View Post
                                        Why thank you but I did say test, not training or playing. And, for another pet peeve of mine, Uta is swinging her leg way back and digging in the spurs, while I realize this is training and you have to drive from somewhere to get that elevation, can that damned swinging, digging spur heel just stop already! I see that in tests and it drives me nuts!
                                        Just for clarity's sake (I'm not being snarky, but have the flu and am groggy): Are you looking for one of the top riders riding an FEI test at a show bitless or in a snaffle, sans spurs, etc? In that context, as I'm sure you know, a double is required, so there aren't videos of that. That's why I posted Uta and Isabell schooling. However, there are videos of said riders doing exhibition rides of the GP bitless.
                                        Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
                                        http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
                                        https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Anybody else remember years ago when Lendon Gray on Seldom Seen did those wonderful Pas de Deux with reiner Marc de Champlain? One of THE-coolest things I ever saw at a dressage show! I don't see ANY form of sharing between the disciplines and seats as a BAD thing; we can all learn from each other. And based on what everybody's said here, a tutorial in ground work of whatever flavor makes for better manners would benefit all horses and riders.

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