• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Understanding Shoulder & Haunch Aids

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Understanding Shoulder & Haunch Aids

    I am a noob to dressage to please bear with me...

    I was recently struck with the idea that different aids should control different parts of the horse's body. My idea more specifically entails using the reins to control the shoulders and my legs to control the haunches. Is this correct, or am I oversimplifying things?

    This question mostly relates to lateral work, but is also relevant to lifting the shoulders (i.e. lifting of hands to lift shoulders).
    Last edited by AlieRider; Feb. 22, 2013, 06:10 PM. Reason: Spelling duh...

  • #2
    I know you'll get real help here soon, but I just had to quickly help you with "haunches".
    Patience pays.

    Comment


    • #3
      Nope, not oversimplified. Oversimplified would be: Hands control the front, legs control the butt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Are you familiar with the rein effects? I was "forced" to memorize them as a small child by my ex-cavalry riding instructor They didn't really make sense until I was a bit older, but one day -- when I was struggling with renvers -- they did!

        Here are a couple of good rein effects links:
        http://www.classical-equitation.com/ReinAids.htm
        http://glenshee.blogspot.com/2008/08...roduction.html
        Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
        http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
        https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

        Comment


        • #5
          Don't forget your seat as an aid. When I think aids I think seat, then leg, then reins, in that order. How you use your seat affects what the horse does with its haunches.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by twelvebelles View Post
            Don't forget your seat as an aid. When I think aids I think seat, then leg, then reins, in that order. How you use your seat affects what the horse does with its haunches.
            Very accurate whether turn on the forehand or turn on the haunches.

            Very little comes from the reins. A great deal from the use of inside and outside leg, in conjunction with the seat.
            Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

            Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

            Comment


            • #7
              oh it gets WAY more complicated than that! Different parts of your leg control different parts of the horse, and placing those different parts of your leg in different places control even more parts!
              And then there's the seat/abs...

              and they think flying planes is complex. horses have a bajillion buttons
              www.destinationconsensusequus.com
              chaque pas est fait ensemble

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by twelvebelles View Post
                Don't forget your seat as an aid. When I think aids I think seat, then leg, then reins, in that order. How you use your seat affects what the horse does with its haunches.
                ^ ^

                Seat, as in weight, seat bone placement, alignment with shoulders, etc.

                It's funny, but changing the position is of your legs is more about the alignment of your seatbones than the change creates than it is about the leg position on the horse's body. Most arguments about "weighting a stirrup" or "pushing with a knee" really come down to the change that makes in the seat. That's why there are people who cannot use their legs, but can influence their seat, that can still ride lateral work. The leg is more for backing up the seat and maintaining the energy.

                The hand position can help control the shoulders, but there again, your shoulders aligned with the horse's shoulders influences the seat. It does come back to the seat. BUT I do have to add that without an outside rein, you're typically lost in most lateral work as it works as a wall, of sorts, to help your horse know how far to bend or not to bend--and to let him know that the energy created by the inside leg does not mean run out the outside!
                "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AlieRider View Post
                  ... but is also relevant to lifting the shoulders (i.e. lifting of hands to lift shoulders).
                  You don't lift the shoulders with your hands.
                  You actually don't lift the shoulders. You engage the hind quarter and your horse will lower its croup and have greater flexion in its hocks. What you will feel then is the wither coming up.

                  If you raise your hands, you'll raise the head of your horse.
                  ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                  Originally posted by LauraKY
                  I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                  HORSING mobile training app

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                    and they think flying planes is complex. horses have a bajillion buttons
                    I was just talking about this in my lessons tonight.....SPOT ON!!
                    Teaching Horseback Riding Lessons: A Practical Training Manual for Instructors

                    Stop Wasting Hay and Extend Consumption Time With Round Bale Hay Nets!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You are on the right track thinking that you can control different parts of the horse and how he moves with your body but it IS more complicated than that. As the Baron wrote "there is a language of touch". That's what riding is, learning that language.
                      Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hands (reins) control steering. Steering comes from the shoulders. Elevation of the shoulders comes from the horse's core. Control of the horse's core and hindquarters comes from your core (thighs, glutes, abs).
                        See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AlieRider View Post
                          I am a noob to dressage to please bear with me...

                          I was recently struck with the idea that different aids should control different parts of the horse's body. My idea more specifically entails using the reins to control the shoulders and my legs to control the hunches. Is this correct, or am I oversimplifying things?
                          Umm, yes, and no...In the beginning, you use reins to control shoulders. Once you have better body control, your seat starts to control the shoulders (and haunches), while reins and whip become secondary (but still important). Also remember that horse feels a lot from your seat, so if your rein aids don't work, try to see whether your seat is saying something else.

                          Per leg: The inner thighs toward the front control shoulders; the thighs toward buttock, as well as the inner calf and heels control haunches.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nhwr View Post
                            Hands (reins) control steering. Steering comes from the shoulders. Elevation of the shoulders comes from the horse's core. Control of the horse's core and hindquarters comes from your core (thighs, glutes, abs).
                            Better tell my horse he's supposed to be steered off my hands. He listens to my seat.

                            Also, if your abs, glutes, etc. control the horse's core, you must have monster ones!

                            Honestly, nhwr, I'm very confused by your reply. Is it really how you feel things when you ride? That it's not more subtle and less strength based? Because I'm worried about you if you really think it's this way. Meaning, someone might be teaching you to use more than you need to communicate with your horse--and that's not fair to you or your horse.
                            "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Reins control the head and neck only. Not a desirable or useful situation, as it leaves the shoulders to do as they please, which is why you see so many horses ridden through corners or around arenas with their head hanging to the outside and their body on an entirely different course

                              Early in both the horse's and the rider's education they should learn to answer and to use both the inside and the outside leg, which are seldom used unilaterally. The rider uses the aids, the horse, we hope, answers.

                              This is why there are teachers and trainers, sometimes one and the same person.
                              Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                              Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                                ... Also, if your abs, glutes, etc. control the horse's core, you must have monster ones!

                                ... Meaning, someone might be teaching you to use more than you need to communicate with your horse--and that's not fair to you or your horse.
                                My current trainer is teaching the same concepts of using my core to communicate to the horse. Bottom line is it works for me, and while it takes tone my abs aren't "monster" although I've gone from a 2 pack to a 4 pack

                                I think it's far more fair to my horse for me to be able to move him up by engaging my core which tucks my seat bones further under me than using a whip to move him forward when my position is telling him to slow down. Position of the seat bones is directed by use of the core muscles.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Actually shifting your leg position will shift the position of your seat bones, which in turn shifts your weight.
                                  Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                  Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    True but you can keep your leg position the same and change the position of your seat bones and redirect the weight in your saddle by using your core.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Melissa.Hare.Jones View Post
                                      I know you'll get real help here soon, but I just had to quickly help you with "haunches".

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Yeah I am just starting to realize that... Anyone know of a owners manual?

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X