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A poll for buyers regarding registration papers

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  • A poll for buyers regarding registration papers

    When responding to an ad where the horse is described as a certain “breed”, how do you handle the issue of registration papers?
    75
    I ask up front if the seller will immediately the papers to me when the sale occurs.
    36.00%
    27
    I wait to verify the status of papers until it appears a sales transaction will take place.
    10.67%
    8
    I make sure the sales contract specifies how transfer of registration papers will be handled.
    26.67%
    20
    I don’t mention the papers, as I assume they will be transferred to me along with the horse.
    13.33%
    10
    I don’t care about registration papers – doesn’t matter to me if the horse comes with papers or not.
    13.33%
    10

    The poll is expired.

  • Original Poster

    #2
    I apologize for the typo in option 1 - and I don't see a way to edit poll options.

    Option 1 should read:
    I ask up front if the seller will immediately TRANSFER the papers to me when the sale occurs.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't breed or show breed specific shows, but every horse I have that was advertised as something came w/ papers. Usually registration, USEF & USDF lifetime & passports if applicable.

      Now my ponies & Tb's who have tattoo's but no paperwork, I never per sued.

      The one that was suppose to be imported & reg. but had no USEF history, I passed on. Not so much because of horse, more so didn't trust stories owner was telling.

      My more concerned w/ a riding/show history that can be verified, than registry.

      Comment


      • #4
        I sell much more often then I buy (as a breeder), and I always have the papers available to show the potential buyers! I never assumed people would mis-represent registration until recent times when I've actually seen it happen. In some cases, simply due to lack of education (such as horses represented as Oldenburg who are unregistered but qualified for Old/ISR as foals), and in others due to shifty business practices (such as an "Andalusian" who was unregistered and of unidentified heritage). So I guess it is buyer beware out there Which is disappointing since there ARE so many breeders that are actually very honest, but a few bad sellers taint the industry

        Comment


        • #5
          I MUST have it "ALL" in the written sales contract !

          I MUST have it "ALL" written in the sales contract (and signatures ) before any $$ is presented to seller !

          This method avoids many problems down the line ~
          Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

          Comment


          • #6
            Whatever is in the contract, make sure that the registration changes hands with the money if you want an ironclad guarantee that you will get them.

            If those papers are that important, be ready and willing to walk away with your money if they are not in your hands as you hand over the funds.

            Money talks and BS walks.....

            Comment


            • #7
              The horses I have bought that have had papers I make sure the completed transfer documents are filled out and available when I pay for the horse.
              It has never been a problem.

              Comment


              • #8
                I look at them when viewing the horse, and they are signed over when the check is given. For geldings, its nice to have to prove age/breeding, but not a deal breaker.
                I.D.E.A. yoda

                Comment


                • #9
                  I want to see everything up front unless I am getting the horse from a buddy then I take the horse and we do the paperwork (bos and reg papers) at our convienence.. typically at a restaruant or pub.
                  I can explain it TO you,but I can't understand it FOR you

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If a horse had a strong enough performance record I would not have a problem buying an unregistered horse, but I would not use the horse for breeding at all.

                    My mare is registered and any foals she has will be registered. I will not buy a registered horse without the papers being transferred or sell a horse without transferring the papers. I also dislike when people sell foals as "registerable". If you bred it you should do the work to register it!
                    Last edited by Thoroughbred in Color; Feb. 18, 2013, 02:11 PM. Reason: clarity
                    It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things.
                    Theodore Roosevelt

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      For those who say you don't care about papers for a gelding - are you not interested in competing for USDF All Breed Awards?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If someone is representing the creature as registered and having a certain breeding, I want something to verify that it is what they say it is.

                        If it's a grade and shows some talent, I'm totally fine with that, but don't tell me it's something it isn't...

                        So I want to see the papers when I look at the horse, (my breed of choice has very recognizeable pictures on the reg papers,) then I want them and all the necessary transfer paperwork completed and handed over at the finalization of the sale.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My answer depends a little on what breed the horse is. When I bought Izzy, it mattered to me that she was registered and that her papers were in order as I want the option to show at breed level, and don't want to chase down previous owners to get transfers done and such, so getting a copy of the papers to check over is important to me, BEFORE I do the PPE.

                          If it the papers are more a "nice to have" then I just make sure I have their transfer covered in the contract.
                          Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                            For those who say you don't care about papers for a gelding - are you not interested in competing for USDF All Breed Awards?
                            No. There's no value in that program for me. Neither I nor the horses I buy are likely to ever be competitive, unless it's one of the really small, obscure registries. And then... really? I have better things to do with my money anyway. Like take another lesson. I need them.

                            If the papers don't come with the horse at the time of the bill of sale, I accept the fact that I just bought a grade horse. The only way I'd ever accept a "papers coming later" clause again would be if some % of the purchase price were initially deducted, payable on transfer of the papers.
                            Halt Near X | Horse Bloggers - Blog Directory

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I like to see the papers first. There are enough horses out there being sold as a particular breed, when -- in fact -- they don't have corresponding papers. Plus, I like to know the bloodlines because it gives me a good idea of type, potential longevity, competing siblings, etc
                              Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
                              http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
                              https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The papers for me are proof of age and other attributes of the horse, as well as a test of honesty of the seller. If the papers are somehow unavailable to back up any info provided, the horse is potentially grade. And that's fine as long as the price is fair for the animal. I won't pay a premium for an "imported", "registered", "show" horse of "x" age, unless I'm able to verify those details.

                                The papers, if they are in order, are just one way of reducing some of the risk of being defrauded by unscrupulous sellers. They speak more about the seller than the quality of the horse, IMO.
                                Born under a rock and owned by beasts!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I'll add a twist if that's okay :
                                  what if the seller only has a COPY of the registration papers. Shows age, description, registration number, etc. Everything matches and there is no question on ownership. The papers just did not get passed down from original owner.
                                  Would you negotiate on price?
                                  How much? Say the asking price is $10,000 and it's a mare.
                                  Would you pass on the horse?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I'd check with the registry first to make sure everything is kosher. Case in point: three years ago I bought an in-foal broodmare with the same registration situation you mentioned. Her owner had died and not transferred papers OR finished filing the breeding report. It's been nearly two years since my foal hit the ground and I'm STILL working on not only getting *her* registered, but on transferring my now deceased mare's ownership to me. So to answer your question: if it was a broodmare or potential breeding stock, I'd probably pass. For a riding horse, I'd negotiate on the price.
                                    Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
                                    http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
                                    https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      And here's why papers matter to me... I bought my first horse as "QH-type" and "about 10", without papers. Turns out he was probably closer to 15 at the time and one of the trainers thinks she saw his papers at one point. So if the papers were mysteriously lost, he magically gained about 5 years of his youth back as a result.

                                      Thankfully the purchase price wasn't too crazy.
                                      Born under a rock and owned by beasts!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I know it happens, but I've never had any issue with seller handing over papers. And I bought my first horse from someone I later learned was somewhat shady (but she handed over accurate papers). *shrug* My last horse I purchased as an unregistered two year old, BUT the seller/breeder handed over signed docs that enabled me to register the horse both as an Appy and a half-Arabian. She had not registered him, since she thought a buyer might not like the name she had given him, and that would save the new owner the expense of paying for a name change. I must say I didn't ask about papers other than, "please give me the papers," and all the sellers I've dealt with immediately complied.

                                        Comment

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