• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Is braiding the tail acceptable for a dressage show?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    And if you *actually* wanted to get an answer, you'd have talked to the judge AT THE SHOW. Or the TD, if there was one. Putting this on COTH, seems like you just want to air your grievances.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by Kadenz View Post
      I get what you're saying, but a) it's okay for a judge to make a comment like that in the comments section - not okay to mark down for it. They're totally allowed to make a comment like "large manure stain on horse's flank," because that SHOULD be noted, even if they can't mark down for it. Get it?

      And b) this person wasn't necessarily a USEF licensed judge. Anyone can judge a schooling show. Was the judge listed as being a USDF "L" graduate or a USEF judge?

      But yeah, thanks for assuming the rest of us don't know WTF we're talking about. I've only been showing dressage for years. "amateur hour" my @$$.
      I have not included you in my question. Your F Bomb reference is inappropriate Actually I did dressage, fox hunting, and combined training in MD and NC 20 years ago. So let's just say I've "revisited" the rules recently so I could "honor the sport." And let's just say that because I thought my horse's bottom would be enhanced by the clean look of braid, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that not just braiding, but TAIL braiding was acceptable among the rules of the USDF. Bottom line is it isn't what YOU know or don't know. But the judges ARE responsible to know these things. I don't care about any score. What I want to do is educate everyone so that they know that if someone cares to FOLLOW the specifications and braid a tail, there should be no mention of it at all.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by Eventer13 View Post
        Oh please, you don't need to be a rated judge to know this rule. I'm an ammy from eventing land and even I know its allowed.

        But, as others have said, it can sometimes cause the horse to carry the tail stiffly. And since the tail is an extension of the back, and the back is something the judges care about in dressage, most people won't risk that happening. And therefore, its not seen often. Doesn't mean its not against the rules.

        Personally, I think braiding the tail in dressage looks about the same as putting in button braids in a show hunter--not illegal, but very out of place.
        Well for what it's worth I braided the "String of Pearls" for Hokan Thorn MANY a time.

        Comment


        • #24
          OP, your attitude isn't helping you here. There are a couple of r-level judges who post here occasionally, but not often enough that they'd necessarily see your question. But a lot of us are very, very good at reading the rule book

          I'd put a braided tail in the same category as a figure-8 noseband -- allowed, but uncommon enough that some judges might see fit to comment on it. That particular comment sounded pretty rude, though.
          You have to have experiences to gain experience.

          1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #25
            No. I just want someone who is qualified as a judge to answer this question. Did you read the question?

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #26
              There was no need to talk to the judge. The scores were fair mostly, and I frankly could care less about the show. This was a task for the horse to see how she would like it. And where I come from, it is poor form to question the judge.

              Comment


              • #27
                Call me crazy but I would think the comments on the card should be reserved for things the rider may find useful in interpreting the scores or additional information that the rider could use to improve the training of his horse or his effectiveness as a rider.

                Pointing out silly things (like "we just braid in dressage" or "we don't use black tack in hunters") seems a waste of space and ink.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Lieb Schon View Post
                  No. I just want someone who is qualified as a judge to answer this question. Did you read the question?
                  I read your first post and there was no question. Just a complaint.

                  Originally posted by Lieb Schon View Post
                  Our first dressage schooling show. Hunter horse/ rider combo. Rider reads ALL USEF and USDF rules regarding turnout for both warrior and steed to assure proper equipment and turnout. USDF rules say "braiding tails acceptable." Judge writes on card "We do not braid tails in dressage."

                  Ummm.......
                  You already knew the rules as you posted them above. You were not marked down and you now say it is improper to question the judge. Nobody can read that judge's mind so the only chance to question why they added the comment is past as you chose not to follow up.

                  As pointed out, the person may not have even been a rated judge to begin with.

                  If you got a comment stating that stirrup leathers are normally longer in dressage or that a longer whip is more common vs a bat would it matter?
                  Proud scar wearing member of the Bold, Banned and Bitchen clique

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Lieb Schon View Post
                    There was no need to talk to the judge. The scores were fair mostly, and I frankly could care less about the show. This was a task for the horse to see how she would like it. And where I come from, it is poor form to question the judge.
                    No. I just want someone who is qualified as a judge to answer this question. Did you read the question?
                    Really?

                    What I want to do is educate everyone
                    ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                    Originally posted by LauraKY
                    I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                    HORSING mobile training app

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      TROUBLEMAKER?

                      I hope that's a joke. When has it become trouble to have your horse turned out beautifully for the judge? --Quote LiebSchon
                      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


                      #1-I didn't say I would not, did not braid. However for those us who qualify as senior citizens, and self-grooms, braiding can be difficult. Adding a tail to the chore could be onerous.

                      #2 Most of us do not care that you have braided for a BNR.

                      #3- Get yourself a sense of humor if you do not plan to beat a rapid retreat from this BB!!!
                      Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                      Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Lieb Schon View Post
                        Our first dressage schooling show. Hunter horse/ rider combo. Rider reads ALL USEF and USDF rules regarding turnout for both warrior and steed to assure proper equipment and turnout. USDF rules say "braiding tails acceptable." Judge writes on card "We do not braid tails in dressage."

                        Ummm.......
                        Not sure why you are taking a judge's comment to imply a lack of comprehension of the USDF rules (which are only 1 set of many): judge included a comment/opinion on your score sheet - a tradition which is greatly encouraged in dressage
                        (you need to hear the complaints when you get a show judge that is sparing with comments )
                        - did not disqualify you or call you over for a verbal reprimand/correction, both of which occurrences are at the judge's discretion should you actually be in violation of a rule ...

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                          Report the judge. The comment shows their basic lack of understanding for the USEF rules. They need to be re-educated and called out for such stupidity.

                          EDIT: Oops. Just reread it was a schooling show. I'd let the USDF know if it was a L graduate. If not, I'd walk up to them after the class and show them the rules and let them know they were wrong and let the show secretary see the judging faux pas.

                          No, it is not common. But it is your option!
                          Why do you believe - insistently, with apparent great umbrage - that the judge was unaware of the USDF rules

                          The comment section of the sheet encourages judicial expression/opinion - the judge did just that - because the judge clearly stated his opinion, the judge is now
                          stupid
                          uneducated
                          wrong

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            The judge was way out of line. "We do not braid tails in dressage"??? Who is she, the Queen of England? A comment like this absolutely does NOT belong on a test sheet. It doesn't even belong in anyone's head.

                            Would it be ok for her to write "We do not use forward seat saddles in dressage" or "We do not wear three-button jackets in dressage"? I hope she was just some know-nothing local yokel and not an L grad, much less anything higher up.

                            By the way, the rules are written by the USEF, not the USDF.
                            Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Lieb Schon View Post
                              Well for what it's worth I braided the "String of Pearls" for Hokan Thorn MANY a time.
                              And yet, not one braided tail on his website.
                              Proud scar wearing member of the Bold, Banned and Bitchen clique

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Kadenz View Post
                                I disagree. I think it's totally fine to comment on turnout in the comments. I've gotten, and seen, such comments, and I don't think they're inappropriate.
                                I agree but I also think there's only so much room for comments and the space is better used for more fruitful comments.

                                BUT the judge likely thought you were nicely turned out in general and a crossover from hunters at a schooling show learning the ropes so she was probably just trying to give you a tip assumping your goal was to fit in better.

                                I don't think it was a helpful comment, actually, but I'd take a deep breath and accept it in the spirit is was likely intended-- to help you succeed.
                                ~Veronica
                                "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I agree with sillyhorse. It seems to me that the DQs got on the defensive when a hunter rider wanders into their sandbox. The comment was innapropriate. Imagine if the judge said "in dressage we clip the whiskers" or "in dressage we put shoes on our horses" braiding tails is a metbod of tu?rnout thatmight be out of fashion but I disagree that it affects the back. Who cares if it was "only" a schooling show or the scores were good. Maybe they would have been higher without the tail being braided under this judge.
                                  http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Um, wow. You do know that with all our alters out here you are not going to be able to tell right away--and with the chip you're putting on your shoulder, they'll never fess up when replying!

                                    (I WAS on your side. But the attitude of your replies is really off-putting. )
                                    "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                                      I agree with sillyhorse. It seems to me that the DQs got on the defensive when a hunter rider wanders into their sandbox. The comment was innapropriate. Imagine if the judge said "in dressage we clip the whiskers" or "in dressage we put shoes on our horses" braiding tails is a metbod of tu?rnout thatmight be out of fashion but I disagree that it affects the back. Who cares if it was "only" a schooling show or the scores were good. Maybe they would have been higher without the tail being braided under this judge.
                                      The people who say it impacts the horses movement are not able to back it up with ANY data. I agree that they are simply stating that as a reason for hating it. It's a personal thing--and uber DQ. Man, this is just getting so stupid.

                                      If it's within the rules and the judge doesn't like it, they need to shut up and do the job they were paid for without that biasing their ability to judge the horse and rider in front of them. If we're turning dressage into a freaking fashion show, then we've gone the way of so many breed classes and even hunter shows where the judges will ADMIT that turnout was their way to break a tie. )

                                      Our sport is already going to he** due to people crossing over from other disciplines and dragging their baggage. Can't we all just go back to the rule book and just make sure the judges use it to--so it's all fair? (Dang, I'm almost tempted to throw in a rollkur reference, but I'll refrain. )
                                      "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by dilligaff2 View Post
                                        And yet, not one braided tail on his website.
                                        I'm missing your point. It's a fashion thing. If he doesn't like the fashion, so be it. If Steffen decided to do it, what do you beat everyone out here would be practising tomorrow?

                                        I like the braided tail. She stood out. She's an individual. It's good to stand out from the crowd--as long as your horse is trained and ready to do the test.
                                        "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by SillyHorse View Post
                                          The judge was way out of line. "We do not braid tails in dressage"??? Who is she, the Queen of England? A comment like this absolutely does NOT belong on a test sheet. It doesn't even belong in anyone's head.

                                          Would it be ok for her to write "We do not use forward seat saddles in dressage" or "We do not wear three-button jackets in dressage"? I hope she was just some know-nothing local yokel and not an L grad, much less anything higher up.
                                          "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X