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Why Western dressage?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
    Would they let someone compete in a western event with a dressage/jumping saddle? They wouldn't even let someone ride in a dressage saddle in the Western Dressage show!
    Who's elitist and foolish now!!!
    alibi18: Well, maybe you should look at the title. WESTERN DRESSAGE, or in Canada, WESTERN STYLE DRESSAGE. The rules require a Western Saddle. Dressage is training.
    The debate is going to go on forever. Personally I'm getting tired of all the rhetoric. Either like it or walk away.
    To many riders who choose to practice and learn dressage, it's a whole new world. It is helping many riders come back to riding, those who cannot physically handle sitting in a dressage saddle, or who's horse may not be the next Olympic hopeful. I've seen it first hand and talked to MANY people both sides of the border who are thrilled with the idea.
    This is opening up dressage to a whole new group of people! Be proud that "your sport" is appealing to a bigger audience, and people are finding a true value and a systematic system to improve themselves and their horses.
    When you get right down to it, it's just basic riding, but to knock apart something that can be good for is only showing your own ignorance.
    Elaine Ward

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Wellspotted View Post
      I don't know when or how the peanut-rolling four-beating fad started but it certainly is not natural to horses!
      The story I heard - probably apocryphal - is that some trainer with an exceptionally good futurity horse overworked it, and it went in with that loooooow head carriage, but won anyway, so everyone assumed that's what the judges wanted and carried it to extremes. Presumably the exaggerately slow, cripped gaits developed because of that loooooooooow head carriage (can't go too fast, too long strided - might kick itself in the jaw. LOL! ) I dunno. Just what I heard. Though I started primarily hunt seat, I did my share of western, but did it in the era when western pleasure horses were expect to have a clear two-beat jog, three beat lope, a FAST walk, and be UP in the bridle, but on a slack rein - the era of braided reins and romels and horses with ARCHED necks. Heck, I had a HUGE Appy event horse who had been started western, and he would go that way in a half-breed. Judges, however, were non-plussed by a 16.3 h.h. western pleasure horse that, even going slow, went twice around the ring to the other horses' once around. LOL

      [Pet peeve: The clenched fist with the free hand in western pleasure and eq. So stiff and unnatural looking. With a romel, you just naturally relaxed your right arm and put your hand on your thigh, holding the romel.]
      Last edited by Sandy M; Dec. 27, 2012, 07:16 PM.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Sandy M View Post
        [Pet peeve: The clenched fist with the free hand in western pleasure and eq. So stiff and unnatural looking. With a romel, you just naturally relaxed your right arm and put your hand on your thigh, holding the romel.]
        Yuh, they all look like they've been shot in the elbow. Even w/o the romel I was taught to rest my hand on the thigh.

        Soo, nurturing my inner pot stirrer, should threads about Western Dressage be in the dressage or in the western forum. My vote is for the western forum.
        Last edited by alicen; Dec. 27, 2012, 05:35 PM.

        Comment


        • #64
          Soo, nurturing my inner pot stirrer, should threads about Western Dressage be in the dressage or in the western forum. My vote is for the western forum. .

          That would be nice. Probably better fit for western forum as more likely of interest to western riders. I doubt there are a whole lot of regular dressage riders (geez do we have to call it english dressage now? ) who will want to switch .

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
            You are wrong. What is important is what is allowed or not.
            It gives the right to use all kind of bits and that goes against all dressage principles.

            What kind of training practices is WD advocating? If those bits are allowed they will be used.
            Who cares about one or two people? The rules applies to all. Don't complain later if your horse never wins against those who are following the rule (rules you endorse by joining) and using the high port, lever, spade bits that shouldn't be seen in proper lower level dressage.
            Properly used high port and spade bits are amazing. Improperly used they are often a complete train wreck. I wouldn't imagine one could score very well using one improperly.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
              Well that's cleared up then. So without the nose band would poor use of a lever bit be very obvious -gaping and such?

              Paula
              I would imagine yes, it would be pretty obvious.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by SugarRush View Post
                A word on curbs....the western curb is not used like or really even similar to the double bridle on an upper level horse. We don't use even half the contact on those bits that an English rider would on the double, even when we have contact (yes, I have ridden with a double before). Our horses are not steered by the bit, they are turned/bended/half halted with our seats and legs entirely. We pick up a little finger and our horses know to rock back and collect. Wiggle the drape in the reins an inch? The western horse slows each foot step. My horse loves his 8 inch shank with 1 inch port far more than my copper mouth loose ring, because he knows that when its in, his face won't ever be touched. That is why it's appropriate for a "lower level" western horse to wear the curb--as long as the horse has been finished properly, he will be much happier in the curb than the snaffle. Snaffles are our training bits, when they have to work more, frame up, move their feet in all directions, etc etc etc--the curb is a vacation.

                Hope that explains it a little!
                I am admittedly an English rider at heart. My real love is foxhunting and my Arab is very good at it. However, I am a fairly ADD rider and get bored drilling at the same things all the time. I have a western saddle and my Arab goes very nicely in a harsh looking ported curb. He actually likes that bit better than his "softer" oval mouth snaffle we hunt and do dressage in. He also gets ridden bitless on trails and endurance rides (which are his favorite activities). I would consider him an extremely "low level" western horse. I actually got the western gear to play with cutting cows, because I had the opportunity and it sounded like fun. Both of us ended up having a blast and he wound up really liking the curb once he figured out how it worked.

                Comment


                • #68
                  I was just emailed this link from a friend on the east coast. He put together a message board so that everyone interested in Western Dressage could go there.
                  I know it's new, but message boards have to start somewhere right?
                  http://westerndressagerider.freeforums.net/index.cgi
                  Elaine Ward

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    As a semi-outsider to both sports (I'm a saddle seat rider at heart. I've dabbled in other stuff including a breif period in dressage but always come back) I would personally be more interested in western dressage than regular dressage because the tack is MUCH more comfortable comfortable and the attire is better.
                    I have not found a single dressage saddle I was happy in. Some of them outright HURT. I am used to my cutback saddle. I don't need a super deep seat and knee rolls. I spend more time in my ride hoping I will come down in the exact right spot that the saddle wants me to than actually riding when in a dressage saddle. I feel out of contact with my horse much more in my friend's Schleese and Albion than I do in a western saddle. The one dressage saddle I was actually comfortable in was an old Stubben Tristan- shallow seat, plain flap, but the stirrup bars weren't in the right spot for me.

                    And... white breeches? Ok. Seriously... Whose idea of a joke is this? Looks good on the vast majority of NOBODY, IMO. If I'm putting in this much effort, I will want to have pics taken... and I would prefer not to cringe every time I look at those pictures.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Elatu View Post
                      I was just emailed this link from a friend on the east coast. He put together a message board so that everyone interested in Western Dressage could go there.
                      I know it's new, but message boards have to start somewhere right?
                      http://westerndressagerider.freeforums.net/index.cgi

                      Looks like it has one posting member- spirithorse/dragonharte -. No comment. Enjoy!
                      Last edited by Crockpot; Dec. 28, 2012, 08:45 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
                        No comment.
                        Ditto.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          SpiritHorse? As in the guy who invented the bridle? No, he did not open that message board. I know that for a fact.
                          Elaine Ward

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Look at the profile of the only poster if it has not already been changed.

                            Spirithorse was also the former username here of the rev.

                            If not admin/board starter, he at least appears to be the only posting member.

                            Enjoy!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I'm guessing the rev is simply the first member? Hopefully others will join, because it should be a good source for WD riders. Real ones, not the rev.

                              Guessing he'll see WD as a new discipline that he can torment, along with traditional dressage and WP.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by blairasb View Post
                                As a semi-outsider to both sports (I'm a saddle seat rider at heart. I've dabbled in other stuff including a breif period in dressage but always come back) I would personally be more interested in western dressage than regular dressage because the tack is MUCH more comfortable comfortable and the attire is better.
                                I have not found a single dressage saddle I was happy in. Some of them outright HURT. I am used to my cutback saddle. I don't need a super deep seat and knee rolls. I spend more time in my ride hoping I will come down in the exact right spot that the saddle wants me to than actually riding when in a dressage saddle. I feel out of contact with my horse much more in my friend's Schleese and Albion than I do in a western saddle. The one dressage saddle I was actually comfortable in was an old Stubben Tristan- shallow seat, plain flap, but the stirrup bars weren't in the right spot for me.

                                And... white breeches? Ok. Seriously... Whose idea of a joke is this? Looks good on the vast majority of NOBODY, IMO. If I'm putting in this much effort, I will want to have pics taken... and I would prefer not to cringe every time I look at those pictures.
                                I grew up riding saddleseat. I was going to suggest one of the old Stubbens if you hadn't already tried one! I would try a bigger seat size. I own an 18" one despite all appearances it being "too big" (I'm 5'5" 130lbs). That's where I'm happiest and the sweet spot is in the right position. Keep in mind that the stirrup bars are going to feel very different than where they should be in a cutback. The balance point is completely different.

                                I don't compete in dressage, I just use it as a means to get my horse to be more athletic. Its good conditioning for both foxhunting and endurance riding which are my real loves.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  No insult intended, because I've seen some pretty darn elegant saddle seat riders (and showed a little saddle seat myself), but I have to go along with JR Young's comment that a good saddle seat rider rides well DESPITE the saddle, not because of it. (caveat I'm told the newer cutback saddles do NOT hinder the rider and are more balanced and slightly deeper, but I have to say that the ones I see in catalogs look pretty much like the ones I used to use (and hated). A friend who showed Arabs mostly saddle seat (and some costume) always borrowed my elderly, dark brown Passier dressage saddle to show and usually won her eq classes using that saddle. (She used an AP saddle for every day schooling/trail riding.) She got lots of compliments on her riding and fascination with her "different" saddle.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by ThreeFigs View Post
                                    I'm guessing the rev is simply the first member? Hopefully others will join, because it should be a good source for WD riders. Real ones, not the rev.

                                    Guessing he'll see WD as a new discipline that he can torment, along with traditional dressage and WP.
                                    He also has a few groups on facebook. One is fairly active and he has so far avoided posting videos of himself though he is free with his comments of other riders
                                    I wasn't always a Smurf
                                    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                                    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by Elatu View Post
                                      alibi18: Well, maybe you should look at the title. WESTERN DRESSAGE, or in Canada, WESTERN STYLE DRESSAGE. The rules require a Western Saddle. Dressage is training.
                                      The debate is going to go on forever. Personally I'm getting tired of all the rhetoric. Either like it or walk away.
                                      To many riders who choose to practice and learn dressage, it's a whole new world. It is helping many riders come back to riding, those who cannot physically handle sitting in a dressage saddle, or who's horse may not be the next Olympic hopeful. I've seen it first hand and talked to MANY people both sides of the border who are thrilled with the idea.
                                      This is opening up dressage to a whole new group of people! Be proud that "your sport" is appealing to a bigger audience, and people are finding a true value and a systematic system to improve themselves and their horses.
                                      When you get right down to it, it's just basic riding, but to knock apart something that can be good for is only showing your own ignorance.
                                      fwiw, i think it is awesome that folks want to learn to ride better etc.

                                      i have nothing against western tack etc.

                                      what i do feel a bit apprehensive about is those that are going to be teaching dressage badly and it will just muddy the waters.... already folks think it is teh same as dressage when it isnt, the amount of energy etc is different - and that is ok - as long as folks understand there is a difference.

                                      anyway, i still wish they would find a different name because i like clarity and the name creates confusion.

                                      and fwiw, when i was a kid i rode western then eventing then pure dressage

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
                                        Look at the profile of the only poster if it has not already been changed.

                                        Spirithorse was also the former username here of the rev.

                                        If not admin/board starter, he at least appears to be the only posting member.


                                        Enjoy!
                                        Good to know. I will let the admin know about this. This forum literally just went up 2 days ago. Just trying to get the word out. You don't have to join any association to participate. Other groups require membership of some sort, or you have to give them personal information to join their message boards.
                                        Elaine Ward

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Yeah... I tried different size stubbens. I was happy size wise in the 18.5 I had and could keep decent form if riding in it without stirrups, but due to having a stupidly long femur, I needed the stirrup bar in the spot that it is in my friend's little 17.5" in which I look like 10 pounds of s*** in a 5 pound sack. ;-) English dressage is just not for me apparently. I have never had so much problem finding a saddle that made me comfortable. I can get along in pretty much any old cutback. I can ride just about any hunt seat saddle. There are few western saddles that bother me, and i can even survive a couple classes in a horse show in one of those god awful straight from the bowels of hell Portuguese bullfighting saddles. But try to get a dressage saddle, my body really wishes I wouldn't even try. Being fused T2 to L1 and then have a couple of degenerative discs below that fusion.... Well... I'm gonna just stick with what doesn't hurt and run with it. If that means I get the dressage bug in the future... well... It's probably going to happen as western dressage just because I'm not so in love with "traditional" dressage (which I would love to point out in this thread, competitive dressage today is a far cry away from classical dressage so I don't get all the people crying fowl over WD) to drop thousands on a custom saddle that isn't going to hurt me when western dressage is now readily available.

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