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Interesting, USDF on Western Dressage

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  • Interesting, USDF on Western Dressage

    http://usdf.org/press/news/view-news.asp?news=643

    I don't know much about it, I've never seen it in person. I am interested to see these "study materials" though

  • #2
    • USDF will stand firm on a position that the USDF, USEF, and FEI dressage rules, including terminology and criteria, cannot be used in a way that uses traditional concepts and terminology to mean something "different". (highlighting mine)

    Good luck policing that.

    Comment


    • #3
      If they are not the same thing why does my GMO hold western dressage classes?
      Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

      Comment


      • #4
        this sounds like it was written by a lawyer, and a short sighted one at that. Wake up and smell the coffee folks, this will soon outnumber (adnd outspend $$$) traditional dressage.
        Appy Trails,
        Kathy, Cadet & CCS Silinde
        member VADANoVA www.vadanova.org

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by baylady7 View Post
          this sounds like it was written by a lawyer, and a short sighted one at that. Wake up and smell the coffee folks, this will soon outnumber (adnd outspend $$$) traditional dressage.
          Hmm, maybe. But that's really only likely to happen with the lowest levels of competition, and only in the US. I have nothing against "Western dressage", but when it comes to the USEF as a national governing body, I agree that they should make every effort to protect the clarity and integrity of dressage terminology.

          For USDF's part, they should be doing everything they can do to underscore dressage's applicability to ALL disciplines and breeds, regardless of tack or natural gaits. But that requires rejecting practices or trends that go against classical principles as enshrined in USEF rules, and demystifying the discipline to people who would otherwise be turned off by misinterpretations and stereotypes. It's not enough to tell the Western folks what they're lacking.... they must show them HOW it's lacking, and WHY that matters. Maybe an On The Levels series for non-dressage riders is needed, or something like that.

          Sadly, I have my doubts that any of the organisations involved will spend much time on long-term philosophical concerns.
          Proud COTH lurker since 2001.

          Comment


          • #6
            I plan to participate in *western* dressage at the Morgan shows that offer it. However, I still think it's just a pattern class. But I'll pay my money and go in because there aren't a lot of classes for me to enter. My AOTS, my amateur 50 and over and open amateur.

            But having ridden dressage and driven dressage, western dressage is a pattern class. I'm hoping to show flexibility, calm responsiveness and accuracy...much like an eq pattern. ;-)
            Ride like you mean it.

            Comment


            • #7
              They say the definitions should be used in the same way, but the FEI guidelines are applied (as a basis) are applied differently? Makes NO sense (and I showed the top eq horses in the country). What makes no sense is poor training principles. If the western group wants to do pattern riding, fine. But then don't call it western dressage.
              I.D.E.A. yoda

              Comment


              • #8
                Meh. I think the USDF is drawing a line in the sand-- getting some specificity for its terms and rules rather than dissing Western Dressage per se. You can read this more neutrally as "Look, the USDF doesn't claim to know anything about Western Dressage.... so they won't pretend to," or "You Western Dressage types can spend your money where you want. It's just not here."

                Originally posted by ezduzit View Post
                I plan to participate in *western* dressage at the Morgan shows that offer it. However, I still think it's just a pattern class. But I'll pay my money and go in because there aren't a lot of classes for me to enter. My AOTS, my amateur 50 and over and open amateur.

                But having ridden dressage and driven dressage, western dressage is a pattern class. I'm hoping to show flexibility, calm responsiveness and accuracy...much like an eq pattern. ;-)

                FWIW, this was how a trainer friend of mine who has been in the biz describes the origins of Western Dressage, at least on the West Coast. The people who invented it were the Morgan people and for the reasons you list.
                The armchair saddler
                Politically Pro-Cat

                Comment


                • #9
                  Right now there are THREE 'western' dressage groups trying to write rules. Trying emerge as THE option.

                  Until they get together and decide there WILL be 1 kind of ring with 1 kind of letters and define their terms consistently across the board, other organizations need to run far far away.

                  It is fine for local shows to offer what they want. But an national and international organizations need to let the in fighting settle a bit.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Agreed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oh we've had this conversation already. The horse has bolted, the barn door is hanging open:

                      1.It is called Western DRESSAGE
                      2.The Western Dressage Association of America has tests that were based on USEF rules under the auspices of Traditional Dressage people.
                      3. I don't know what low level is. It has tests intro, basic, level 1, level 2 (1-4 each level). Sure it's not Grand Prix, but how many traditional dressage enthusiasts are?

                      They're here, they're Western Dressage, get over it.
                      http://westerndressageassociation.or...e-rules-tests/

                      Paula
                      He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The question is who will judge this? And upon what they can therefore base their opinions. UsEf is the national body for that. The jockeying for control with the w.d. comes from other than the national body.
                        I.D.E.A. yoda

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                          Oh we've had this conversation already. The horse has bolted, the barn door is hanging open:

                          1.It is called Western DRESSAGE
                          2.The Western Dressage Association of America has tests that were based on USEF rules under the auspices of Traditional Dressage people.
                          3. I don't know what low level is. It has tests intro, basic, level 1, level 2 (1-4 each level). Sure it's not Grand Prix, but how many traditional dressage enthusiasts are?

                          They're here, they're Western Dressage, get over it.
                          http://westerndressageassociation.or...e-rules-tests/

                          Paula
                          Please understand there were THREE 'western' dressage groups that showed up at USDF convention to lobby. Western Dressage Association of America, North American Western Dressage, and Cowboy Dressage.

                          Not just one group is trying to be IT.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            understood, but for clarity -pick one. I picked the WDAA and it's not to my detriment. There is competition, there are rules, there are tests.

                            Paula
                            He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There certainly have been a lot of conversations about Western dressage, but I don't know that USDF has formulated an official position on it before.

                              And it's a pretty vanilla position, if you ask me. I don't know what you'd expect from the organization anyway. There are already three Western dressage organizations trying to be king of the hill. It seems that USDF is just stating it won't endorse one.

                              And that the competing orgs can formulate all the tests they want, but dressage terms mean what USDF and USEF say they mean. Not what any Western dressage organizations say they are. And that is not news to anyone who has ever watched a WD test. Believe me.


                              I plan to participate in *western* dressage at the Morgan shows that offer it. However, I still think it's just a pattern class.
                              That's what it looks like to me, too. Fun to ride.

                              And to whomever asked why their GMO is sponsoring western dressage test ... probably for the same reason mine does: more entries at shows and more participation.

                              Every schooling show this year had WD classes. It doesn't mean the GMO is now endorsing western dressage or changing its focus. My local Arabian club sponsors shows with classes for QHs, Morgans and Saddlebreds. It doesn't mean they're now in the business of promoting or endorsing other breeds.

                              It means they like to make money on their shows.
                              __________________________
                              "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                              the best day in ten years,
                              you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I took it to mean - do what you want but not under our umbrella and not at our recognized shows. As it should be IMO. It's not traditional dressage, it doesn't belong at recognized dressage shows. I have to question the real popularity too. I'm sure it is more popular in more western centric regions but several schooling shows in my region held western dressage classes and most had no participants. When there were entries it was one, maaaaybe two people. Certainly not a money maker for the shows compared to traditional TL and 1st Level that had 20 - 40 people in each.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                                  Oh we've had this conversation already. The horse has bolted, the barn door is hanging open:

                                  1.It is called Western DRESSAGE
                                  You can call a goat a horse, but that that doesn't make it a horse.
                                  Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by mp View Post
                                    There certainly have been a lot of conversations about Western dressage, but I don't know that USDF has formulated an official position on it before.

                                    And it's a pretty vanilla position, if you ask me. I don't know what you'd expect from the organization anyway. There are already three Western dressage organizations trying to be king of the hill. It seems that USDF is just stating it won't endorse one.

                                    And that the competing orgs can formulate all the tests they want, but dressage terms mean what USDF and USEF say they mean. Not what any Western dressage organizations say they are. And that is not news to anyone who has ever watched a WD test. Believe me.




                                    That's what it looks like to me, too. Fun to ride.

                                    And to whomever asked why their GMO is sponsoring western dressage test ... probably for the same reason mine does: more entries at shows and more participation.

                                    Every schooling show this year had WD classes. It doesn't mean the GMO is now endorsing western dressage or changing its focus. My local Arabian club sponsors shows with classes for QHs, Morgans and Saddlebreds. It doesn't mean they're now in the business of promoting or endorsing other breeds.

                                    It means they like to make money on their shows.
                                    I completely concur. My GMO offers both gaited and western dressage. We follow NWHA rules and tests, and currently follow the Morgan rules and tests, though we are considering changing to a different rule book: that is easily done, since USDF has no rules for either.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by SillyHorse View Post
                                      You can call a goat a horse, but that that doesn't make it a horse.
                                      Not sure how comparing a goat to a horse accurately represents the difference between Western Dressage and Traditional Dressage unless you do actually mean to show that level of contempt for Western riders and their skills?

                                      Paula
                                      He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I don't think it's contempt, PE. Let's face it, western pleasure riders DO NOT HAVE the riding skill that dressage riders have...not the awareness of their body movements and/or their horse's response. I think it's fair to say that.

                                        Western riders who participate in speed and action don't have it either. It's point and shoot.

                                        I don't have any contempt for other types of western riding...but it will never be classical dressage. never.

                                        Editing to add: my horse does a lovely collected canter otherwise known as a lope. But not because he's been patiently brought up the levels for more and more collection. He's BUILT to be collected. He couldn't be uncollected if he tried his mightiest. It's just not the same.
                                        Ride like you mean it.

                                        Comment

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