• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Gone Noseband-less...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    My little Arab is "girthy" about the cavesson, even if not done up tightly, so I took it off her bridle. I do have a figure-8 on order to see if she prefers that, but for now she goes without.

    I think because she is very mouthy, her previous owners may have used a tight noseband, and left the mare with a bad association.

    I do not think that in general nosebands are bad though, but do think they should be given more understanding and consideration.
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by Carol Ames View Post
      Look here!http://www.williammicklem.com/multib...insideout.html
      MORE COMFORTABLE, MORE HUMANE, MORE EFFECTIVE!
      The Rambo® Micklem Multibridle is the first bridle or cavesson that is designed from the inside out, from the shape of the skull itself, instead of just from the outward appearance of the head. (Figure 1) In particular it avoids any pressure on the fa-cial nerves, the projec-ting cheek bones or the upper jaw molar teeth.
      Carol, before I switched to the current arrangement, my mare was in a Miklem bridle and she was OK with it (certainly better than when she's in a bridle with a flash.) I showed her a couple of times in it, too. I still have it and am considering whether to hang onto it since so many horses do like them.
      You have to have experiences to gain experience.

      1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

      Comment


      • #23
        It also struck me reading the new Dover catalog the other day, how there are barely any offerings of "plain" leather reins now, even for hunters, whereas the new permutations of stops, rubber, grippies, and hi-tech materials proliferate with each new catalog. Ditto over at Smart Pak.

        What this tells me is that practically everyone is water-skiing on their horses' tied-shut mouths, and the art of slipping, "combing," "vibrating," or even probably HOLDING the reins is at risk of being lost!

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #24
          Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
          It also struck me reading the new Dover catalog the other day, how there are barely any offerings of "plain" leather reins now, even for hunters, whereas the new permutations of stops, rubber, grippies, and hi-tech materials proliferate with each new catalog. Ditto over at Smart Pak.

          What this tells me is that practically everyone is water-skiing on their horses' tied-shut mouths, and the art of slipping, "combing," "vibrating," or even probably HOLDING the reins is at risk of being lost!
          I do find rein stops useful as a reminder about where my hands are/where they should be. And found rubber reins very useful for a big strong horse when I was jumping... These are all innovations and I am not inclined toward the "OMG horsemanship is being LOST!" thinking.

          When I was a teen taking lessons 30+ years ago, I recall very few plain reins. Most of what we had was laced, and the occasional lovely braided reins.
          You have to have experiences to gain experience.

          1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

          Comment


          • #25
            When I use a noseband (rarely now, I took it off my bridle but if we end up going to a show or something I'll put it back on), I always do it loose anyway (at least two fingers can fit between the leather and the horse). But my horse always seems more finicky about putting the bridle on when there's a noseband attached (I don't think he likes all the 'extra' leather hanging around his face) than if there isn't so I just took it off.

            I do have rubber reins but I got them because they're blue. And I do like that right where the rubber starts is usually where it's the 'sweet spot' for me to hold my reins normally so it makes it really easy to remember.
            The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
            Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
              It also struck me reading the new Dover catalog the other day, how there are barely any offerings of "plain" leather reins now, even for hunters, whereas the new permutations of stops, rubber, grippies, and hi-tech materials proliferate with each new catalog. Ditto over at Smart Pak.

              What this tells me is that practically everyone is water-skiing on their horses' tied-shut mouths, and the art of slipping, "combing," "vibrating," or even probably HOLDING the reins is at risk of being lost!
              I've never used plain reins in 20 years....not really that common in my area. Nice generalizations about nosebands and bad riding...at first I thought you were joking. Handstops are hardly the devils work LOL.

              Comment


              • #27
                I like web reins with stops so I know they're even. Gosh, I forgot all about combing the reins! Have to go give that a shot tomorrow. Haven't done that in a long time.

                Comment


                • #28
                  My new 5 yr old was a little fussy about the contact. I had his teeth floated, but still 'fussy'. Took the drop off and voila, beautiful mouth. I'm going to try a plain 'loose' noseband next week, see how he likes that.
                  Re reins, why can't you find nice wide ones anymore? They all seem really narrow, whether they're rubberized braided or what-have-you. I did find a pair of plaited reins that were very wide and very nice, but a client's horse chewed them!

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Is anyone doing 3rd or higher level with a loose or non-existent noseband?

                    After thinking about how much my semi-retired mare likes it, I loosened my gelding's noseband another hole for our ride today. He seemed to like that just fine. I'm not sure whether this was just a really good day anyway (it was) or if this will continue...guess I'll see. We're working 3rd level.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      The flash came off long ago and the noseband several years ago. My horse literally raised his head, stretched his neck, and celebrated by jingling the bit the first time I bridled him without it. He goes so much better now. I have his regular dressage bridle sans noseband and the Micklem which I use without a bit. I alternate between the two. Much much happier horse.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        While I was waiting for my new bridle to show up, I rode my guy around in a western headstall, no noseband, in a loose ring waterford. He loved it! I never adjusted nosebands to be snug, but now I leave them as loose as I can without having it twist and bump his face. He's overall much softer and more receptive to contact!

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I'm trainin Third, competing Second. I never ride with a flash. I think for certain horses it could be used positively as a training tool if adjusted correctly and not used o cover up bad training or rough hands.

                          I put my caveson on the loosest hole. It's loose enough for my horse to enjoy a treat when she's done something awesome, or to settle her when the horse eating combine goes rumbling next to us. It's really just decoration. I don't want to take it off because, like the flash that came with the bridle, I'll lose it. I don't know where all these bits of tack go, but I'm sure there's some kind of neverland they migrate to once removed from a working piece of tack.

                          I don't see the big deal with using a caveson if its adjusted loosely. You don't want it poorly adjusted and annoying the horse, but a well fitted one with room for the horse to move its jaw shouldn't cause the horse any problems. If it is, then either it's too tight, poorly adjusted and annoying the horse, or the horse has some sort of pain associated with where it sits. I'd be more inclined to get the horses teeth checked if a well-fitted caveson is causing head shaking or fussiness (at least to rule it out as a possibility).

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            A question for those of you who say your horses go better in a micklem bridle ... I realize they are supposed to be "anatomically designed" to fit the horse's head properly, but every version of it that I have seen has a strap that goes below the bit, under the horse's chin. How is this really so different from a properly fitted and adjusted drop noseband?

                            While drop nosebands and flash nosebands are not the same thing, and the design of a flash noseband (unlike a drop noseband) makes it predisposed to over-tightening, they are both intended to keep the horse from being able to open its mouth and evade the bit.

                            So my question is, what is it about the micklem that makes it a noninvasive, non-restrictive training aid while a drop or flash noseband is just a quick fix for those who don't want to take the time to train properly?

                            I will admit that I have never used a micklem bridle so maybe it would turn my horses into instant superstars, but I have to admit that I tend to be leery of things that seem gimmicky. Sometimes I wish they did placebo-controlled studies of new horsey gadgets.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post
                              they are both intended to keep the horse from being able to open its mouth and evade the bit.
                              The other reason that's often given is that the dropped or flash noseband is for stabilizing the bit in the horse's mouth. Although I'm not so sure I buy that, because horse's don't seem to have any trouble stabilizing the bits in their mouths when there's nothing attached to them (such as riders).

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post
                                A question for those of you who say your horses go better in a micklem bridle ... I realize they are supposed to be "anatomically designed" to fit the horse's head properly, but every version of it that I have seen has a strap that goes below the bit, under the horse's chin. How is this really so different from a properly fitted and adjusted drop noseband?

                                While drop nosebands and flash nosebands are not the same thing, and the design of a flash noseband (unlike a drop noseband) makes it predisposed to over-tightening, they are both intended to keep the horse from being able to open its mouth and evade the bit.

                                So my question is, what is it about the micklem that makes it a noninvasive, non-restrictive training aid while a drop or flash noseband is just a quick fix for those who don't want to take the time to train properly?

                                I will admit that I have never used a micklem bridle so maybe it would turn my horses into instant superstars, but I have to admit that I tend to be leery of things that seem gimmicky. Sometimes I wish they did placebo-controlled studies of new horsey gadgets.
                                I find it interesting how much the "gadgets" have proliferated in recent years. I don't know if that means more entrepreneurs are working on the "problems," or the skills of riders have deteriorated from the times when your choices of gear could pretty much be illustrated on facing pages of a book.

                                Anyone ever wondered why martial arts are a phenomenon of the Far East? It's because there, to solve the problem you worked on the skills of the man and did not blame the limitations of the technology. The "weapon" was a given. In Europe, however, technology was applied to invent a better weapon because the MAN was a "given," and his skills were usually limited. Could it be that a similar phenomenon is still in play here, when it comes to what people "think they need" to get the job done with horses?

                                I still remember the days of: Snaffle, Weymouth, Kimberwick, Pelham, that's it! A dropped noseband was considered exotic.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Not that I ever try to crank the noseband super tight but HOW does any one get their nosebands so tight that the horse can't open their mouth?

                                  Admittedly, I use figure 8's - smashingly handsome and my current horses go well in them. But I make them "snug" and I can still easily fit my whole hand under one of the sections. How do they do it? W/ a plier???

                                  I did have one horse who hated flashes w/ a passion. He made his opinion clear about the matter. And he went great in a plain noseband... it can be completely an individual horse thing.

                                  And those bemoaning rubber reins, etc... Ever ride in the rain w/ leather reins? Rubber is SO much nicer to hang on to and it's never prevented me from slipping the reins when needed.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    One of the differences between a Micklem and a drop is that the top of the Micklem noseband is much higher on the horse's face... nowhere near the nostrils at all.

                                    Millera, have you ever seen a real crank noseband? They make it much easier to get a regular noseband really tight. Combine that with a tight flash, and that mouth isn't opening.
                                    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                                    1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      One time I was asked to exercise an instructor's horse while she was away, which I was excited about because it was a nice horse. I already knew she was a "snug noseband" person because she was always tightening everyone's buckles, but I was shocked when I bridled her horse for the first time. It was more than obvious what holes were used for the noseband and flash, and they were ungodly tight. I tried to buckle it and almost didn't have the strength to crank it that tight. I said eff it and buckled it looser, horse didn't have any objections to that of course.

                                      I just don't really get it. I have always buckled the noseband very loosely. As candysgirl said, it's just there for looks. Sometimes I have experimented going snugger on horses that were having some contact issues or whatever, thinking maybe a change would help, but it never has. A tight noseband only makes things worse, imho. I don't really know what there is to be gained by tight nosebands/flashes/cranks, etc.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        I used to detest rubber reins and now I love them. I guess spending some time around and on eventers will do that to yah.

                                        My tastes in reins is ever-evolving, it feels like. I used to love love love very thin reins, now I generally prefer something chunkier. I kind of like switching it up every now and then... whenever I get different reins, it forces me to be more aware of the contact. Plus different horses warrant different reins to me. I would rather right a sensitive, light horse in thinner reins. A horse that prefers heavier contact, I like chunkier reins or even rubber. Is that weird?

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          The noseband has never made much of a difference for me, but I grew up in pony-club where we were taught to leave it loose. I actually start all of my youngsters in a bridle that is basically just a strap of leather with a browband. It's just less for babies to break if they want to be silly. I've never understood the whole "crank the mouth" bit, even when I rode in the hunters and jumpers. My flashes sit in a box collecting dust, there if I ever want to sell a bridle. I've had no problem introducing the noseband to a horse, or taking the noseband off a horse I've started, but I think that it really makes little difference to the horse if he has no problem opening his mouth with it on anyway. And I agree on the issue of finding a bridle without a flash these days! Perhaps it is just my barn, were none of our lesson horses go in flashes, and all non-lesson horses are my rides, but do that many people really use flashes??? I hate the look of an empty flashloop, and they're a bit tricky to cut off!

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X