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Hock injection success stories?

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  • #21
    I could share my horse's experience with hock injections, but just for fun, I'll share my own "hock" infiltration.

    I was in crutches all summer long because of a torn ligament in my right ankle. After several months of treatments, physio, and basically doing nothing, my doctor thought it would be best to operate. So I went and did an MRI, which showed that on top of the torn ligament, I had severe inflammation in the joint.

    Now, I have to add, I hate doctors, I am scared as hell of surgeries, so I was very reluctant to go under the knife. So we agreed he would infiltrate my ankle and we would work from there.

    Its an experience I wouldn't like to repeat very often, it hurts a lot and I was in extreme pain for the next 48 hours. But as soon as those 48 hours passed, I putted my stilettos on and went out with my friends.

    I do feel I have less mobility than on the "healthy" ankle, but I can run, swim, ride and do just about anything, so I'll delay the surgery until my next ligament tare

    P.S.: I had my horses hocks, pasterns, back and neck infiltrated several times to control his generalized arthritis. I had it done with a few different vets and it only worked 100% when I decided to spend the euros and paid 500€ for each infiltration. I would recommend you do it if you must, but do it with the best vet you can find. It really does make a huge difference,
    www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

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    • Original Poster

      #22
      SCMSL lol Thanks for the human side of it. Great info.

      My vet injects himself. He swears by it. lol

      So would you guys mind sharing your "return to work" schedule?

      I gave 2 days off then today I just walked for 30 min. Tomorrow I will ride for another 30 minutes consisting of mostly walk but I'll ask for the trot on the short sides of the arena. The next two days my plan is to walk and trot (working no collection) and the following 2 days working canter. Does this sound about right to you. My plan if all goes well is after the 8 days we should be able to resume work.

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      • #23
        Kurplexed, I'm not a dressage rider, but I do upper level jumpers on my 16-year-old mare. We do injections twice a year with her (more preventatively than anything else, at this point). She usually has 2 days just hand walking, 1 day of turnout, and then goes back to light hacking work on the fourth day, full work by 6. Never had any issues with that.
        Last edited by supershorty628; Nov. 16, 2012, 08:32 PM.
        http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
        Proudly blogging for The Chronicle of the Horse!

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        • #24
          Here we do 1 week hand walking, starting with just 5 minutes and then increasing it until 30 minutes. Then 1 week of riding walk for 30 min and increasing until 50 minutes. Only in the 3rd week do we start adding some trot, which means the horse takes around a month and a half to be back in full work.
          www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

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          • Original Poster

            #25
            2 Vastly different methods. Interesting...

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            • #26
              2 Vastly different methods. Interesting...
              ~

              I do dressage, but apart from my arthritic horse, we only inject them maybe once a year. Both the "super vet" and I have found this slower method seems to agree with them more, and somehow allows the injections to last longer. There is always 1001 ways to do the same thing, and you should do what it works best for your horses, but I'm really happy we've found this "recipe".
              www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

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              • Original Poster

                #27
                Oh I totally agree. It's just funny how the first two replies were so different.

                I'm in no rush (well I really am, I can't wait to get back to work, luckily I have tons of exercises to work on in the walk) and I don't want to risk working him in pain so I think what I will do is just start super slow and ask a little bit more each day. I have a feeling 2 weeks and we will be ready to get serious again.

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                • #28
                  What did your vet reccomend for putting your horse back to work?
                  My mare gets her hocks done 2-3 times a year. There is a remarkable difference after she gets them done. My vet usually reccomends 1-2 days of complete stall rest, no turnout either (add another day if rainy and muddy). 2 days of walk-trot work and 2 days of light work before picking up and going back into full work (we are schooling 4th level).
                  I am going to try Tildren next week for her to see if we can help her hocks to fuse faster and have her injections last longer.
                  She is also on Pentosan every other week, and that has helped to prolong the hock injections.
                  When putting your horse back to work after the injections, it is better to go a little slow and take your time, but if you take too long then you will lose all of the muscle and fitnesss that you had prior to getting the hocks done and then have to work extra hard to get it back.
                  As far as thinking that you may need to rethink your horse's career, my mare is 8 and doing really well, she just needs a little bit of help. If your horse is happy with their work, I wouldn't change the career, just maybe change your schooling a bit. I do a little less drilling on my mare's "bad" side, a few less changes, and a little less lateral work that way, we also try to have 2 long and low stretchy days and a hack out day to keep her fresh.

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                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Originally posted by tryintogethere View Post
                    What did your vet reccomend for putting your horse back to work?
                    My mare gets her hocks done 2-3 times a year. There is a remarkable difference after she gets them done. My vet usually reccomends 1-2 days of complete stall rest, no turnout either (add another day if rainy and muddy). 2 days of walk-trot work and 2 days of light work before picking up and going back into full work (we are schooling 4th level).
                    I am going to try Tildren next week for her to see if we can help her hocks to fuse faster and have her injections last longer.
                    She is also on Pentosan every other week, and that has helped to prolong the hock injections.
                    When putting your horse back to work after the injections, it is better to go a little slow and take your time, but if you take too long then you will lose all of the muscle and fitnesss that you had prior to getting the hocks done and then have to work extra hard to get it back.
                    As far as thinking that you may need to rethink your horse's career, my mare is 8 and doing really well, she just needs a little bit of help. If your horse is happy with their work, I wouldn't change the career, just maybe change your schooling a bit. I do a little less drilling on my mare's "bad" side, a few less changes, and a little less lateral work that way, we also try to have 2 long and low stretchy days and a hack out day to keep her fresh.

                    Great post. Thanks!! Vet recommended stall rest for that particular night and then regular turn out. 2 days off 2 days walking 2 days WTC then he should be able to be worked. So pretty similar to your method.

                    Can you explain Fusing? To me that sounds like a bad thing but I really don't know what that means. I've heard many people talk about it in a good way but any info appreciated.

                    Pentosen.....What is an average cost? I think I was told $60 a dose...

                    Right, I don't want to loose any conditioning so I want to move it along. I think I'll just ask for a little bit more each day. I also want to keep him mind on the work. Nothing worse than a ahorse who's decided it's more fun to goof off.

                    He is happy in his work but I initially thought he was stiff on the bad side and worked him that direction. My new approach will to be a little more sensitive in that direction.

                    You do 2 full days on L&L? I ride 5 days a week and on the weekends either show (not in the winter) or do a hunter pace or a trail ride (again not in the winter) so I guess I'll need to rethink our training this winter. Need to find more fun things for him.......

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                    • #30
                      Yep, I didn't mention it, but I also do regular doses of pentosan, tildren and adequan on my horses. I usually do it every 6 months, which rounds up to about 1000€ each turn. But hey, if it helps them last longer...!
                      www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

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                      • #31
                        Yep, I didn't mention it, but I also do regular doses of pentosan, tildren and adequan on my horses. I usually do it every 6 months, which rounds up to about 1000€ each turn. But hey, if it helps them last longer...!

                        I also supplement with Calphormin and Twidill race. Even though Calphormin is recommended only for bloodmares and foals, it seems to help keep everything in place in sports horse. Both my trainer, my vet (who's two kids are competing in FEI at GP and PSG) and I have been using it for about two years and it has worked for us.
                        www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by KurPlexed View Post
                          Great post. Thanks!! Vet recommended stall rest for that particular night and then regular turn out. 2 days off 2 days walking 2 days WTC then he should be able to be worked. So pretty similar to your method.

                          Can you explain Fusing? To me that sounds like a bad thing but I really don't know what that means. I've heard many people talk about it in a good way but any info appreciated.

                          Pentosen.....What is an average cost? I think I was told $60 a dose...

                          Right, I don't want to loose any conditioning so I want to move it along. I think I'll just ask for a little bit more each day. I also want to keep him mind on the work. Nothing worse than a ahorse who's decided it's more fun to goof off.

                          He is happy in his work but I initially thought he was stiff on the bad side and worked him that direction. My new approach will to be a little more sensitive in that direction.

                          You do 2 full days on L&L? I ride 5 days a week and on the weekends either show (not in the winter) or do a hunter pace or a trail ride (again not in the winter) so I guess I'll need to rethink our training this winter. Need to find more fun things for him.......
                          Fusing is when the cartilage in the joint is worn away, and replaced with bone ie:calcium deposit, either naturally, mechanically or chemically. The lower hock joint where most horses have their problems, does not move, therefore it is desirable, in a horse that is having hock pain or arthritic changes, for the joint to fuse. Once the joint has fused the horse does not have the pain of the bone rubbing on either very thin cartilage or bone because the synovial fluid that is in the joint has been compromised due to inflamation in the joint. That is why when the joints are injected, the vets look to see how thick or watery the synovial fluid that comes out is.
                          Pentosan is compounded in the US by Wedgewood Pharmacy, I believe I pay about $20 a dose, if you get the original Pentosan from Australia it is considerably more expensive. Some vets don't want to use the compounded Pentosan. Here is the link for where I get mine from, I have used the vet once or twice but I am not in the same state so I am pretty sure they will sell it if you call and speak to them.
                          http://www.atlantaequine.com/pages/c...rm_Arthro.html

                          My mare is in hard training, even when we do L&L she is moving and pushing and we do some lateral work, if she is feeling really good, I may pick her up and do some collected work for about 15 minutes. There are some days when I get on her with the idea of doing L&L and she says "no" she wants to stay up and do collected work...who am I to argue with a mare about wanting to work . Other days when I get on to do L&L she is very happy to do it, so I do just play it by ear a little. I also do some cavelletti work through the winter, to help keep everything stronger since getting out to hack on hills may or may not happen depending on the weather.
                          Something else to keep in mind, a lot of times horses with sore hocks show it first in their backs, due to holding themselves in weird ways to protect their hocks, so just be aware that if your boy starts to seem a little backsore, it may be time for hock injections, so before you start doing a bunch of work on the back, check the hocks first.

                          **Disclaimer....I am not a vet, just a person who has been through hell and back trying to figure out why my mare was trying to kill me every time I rode her, fast forward 2 years and we are moving forward and doing great.

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                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Originally posted by tryintogethere View Post
                            Fusing is when the cartilage in the joint is worn away, and replaced with bone ie:calcium deposit, either naturally, mechanically or chemically. The lower hock joint where most horses have their problems, does not move, therefore it is desirable, in a horse that is having hock pain or arthritic changes, for the joint to fuse. Once the joint has fused the horse does not have the pain of the bone rubbing on either very thin cartilage or bone because the synovial fluid that is in the joint has been compromised due to inflamation in the joint. That is why when the joints are injected, the vets look to see how thick or watery the synovial fluid that comes out is. Thanks! Like I said I've heard it was good but the conversation always turned and I never got the chance to ask why.
                            Pentosan is compounded in the US by Wedgewood Pharmacy, I believe I pay about $20 a dose, if you get the original Pentosan from Australia it is considerably more expensive. Some vets don't want to use the compounded Pentosan. Here is the link for where I get mine from, I have used the vet once or twice but I am not in the same state so I am pretty sure they will sell it if you call and speak to them.
                            http://www.atlantaequine.com/pages/c...rm_Arthro.html
                            Great. I'm going to check it out. My vet used to give the script to a friend for her horse but stopped doing that and now we have to purchase from him. I believe he said it's $120 a bottle but that the bottle only had 2 doses?? That just seemed like a lot.

                            My mare is in hard training, even when we do L&L she is moving and pushing and we do some lateral work, if she is feeling really good, I may pick her up and do some collected work for about 15 minutes. There are some days when I get on her with the idea of doing L&L and she says "no" she wants to stay up and do collected work...who am I to argue with a mare about wanting to work . Other days when I get on to do L&L she is very happy to do it, so I do just play it by ear a little. I also do some cavelletti work through the winter, to help keep everything stronger since getting out to hack on hills may or may not happen depending on the weather. This sounds like our workouts. Sometimes I just go out planning on having an easy day and we normally end up getting down to more difficult stuff after about 20min.

                            Something else to keep in mind, a lot of times horses with sore hocks show it first in their backs, due to holding themselves in weird ways to protect their hocks, so just be aware that if your boy starts to seem a little backsore, it may be time for hock injections, so before you start doing a bunch of work on the back, check the hocks first. Yes. He was checked before we injected and didn't seem to be sore but I'm going to call chiro out once we are back in work and make sure he didn't knock something out of alignment

                            **Disclaimer....I am not a vet, just a person who has been through hell and back trying to figure out why my mare was trying to kill me every time I rode her, fast forward 2 years and we are moving forward and doing great.
                            Gotcha. I'm learning tons. That's why I don't mind spending the money. It's like going to vet school. : )

                            SCMSL Thanks. I'm def going to look into all of that and see what my vet recommends. I'd love for the injections to last longer...

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Quinn View Post
                              If the injections have a positive effect, you may want to then try IRAP. I have had exceptional, long lasting results.

                              http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff
                              Ditto, esp if he has more serious changes, regular steroid/HA injections might be a waste of $. I've used IRAP on a fetlock and now both hocks (all joints had more advanced changes), with much better results. It's more $ up front, but with longer/better results for us.

                              We were also doing monthly Adequan, but recently switched to PentAussie, with really good results. I asked my vet about the cheaper Pentosan compounding option, and he warned against the looser regulation. That was about 2 months before the human steroid injection meningitis disaster from the Mass. compounding pharmacy.

                              PentAussie also has glucosamine, though, and I'm ceasing feeding that orally, so the price difference isn't a total "loss". Of course, this is all off-label use, officially.

                              Also ditto the post suggesting to look at your training program to make sure you're helping him use himself properly. My horse is a bit lazy for a TB and naturally wants to let his hocks trail, which is not good for joint longevity.
                              Fear is the rocket sauce.
                              Jack Black

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                              • #35
                                Dramatic difference for my horse, much free-er moving and willing to work. When you say monthly, I assume you mean IV, not joint? WHen my horse was first injected, he was given Legend IV, a week later the hocks were done, and a week after that IV Legend again. After that, I just had the joints done at approx. 6 month intervals, no IV injections of Legend.

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                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Sandy M View Post
                                  When you say monthly, I assume you mean IV, not joint?
                                  Yes. I meant IV/IM pentosen. My vet didn't think he needed that yet but I'm super pro active and want to learn as much as I can now so if I do find I need to start using I'm not scrambling to get info. I currently have him on 10cc Glucosomine a week. Vet has said to double that to twice a week. (he's a big horse)

                                  Ditto, esp if he has more serious changes, No he only showed minor changes (a small hook on both hocks and that was last years xrays) (regular steroid/HA injections might be a waste of $. I've used IRAP on a fetlock and now both hocks (all joints had more advanced changes), with much better results. It's more $ up front, but with longer/better results for us. Not sure I can afford this)

                                  Also ditto the post suggesting to look at your training program to make sure you're helping him use himself properly. My horse is a bit lazy for a TB and naturally wants to let his hocks trail, which is not good for joint longevity.
                                  My guy is on the very lazy side. I am riding 2nd level and we've started collection so hopefully I'll be able now to get him to use himself more correctly than I have in the past. I have a feeling this is why his hocks started bothering him in the first place....collection?

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                                  • #37
                                    KurPlexed, my mare had a hook on one hock, what we discovered over an extended period of time was that the Cunean Tendon (which is a useless tendon left from when they had toes) was torking her lower hock and rubbing across the hook causing her extreme pain. I was fortunate to have a vet who had performed Cunean Tendonectomies and assured me that after the procedure was done we would return back to full work barring any complications. The vet removes a section of the tendon to prevent it from growing back together.
                                    Here is a link to an older COTH thread with some info on it. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...his-done/page2
                                    I am not saying that your boy needs this done, but just something to learn about. It used to be done more frequently, but for some reason has fallen out of favor with younger vets.
                                    I will say that it was honestly a lifesaver for my girl, she was in such pain that it was making her dangerous undersaddle and unpredictable on the ground. I didn't give up on her because I knew it wasn't a behavioral issue, but if the procedure didn't work I would have put her down.
                                    When I bought my girl as a 3 year old, we saw the hook but were not too concerned, when I had her x-rayed again as a 5 year old there was no change in the hook, but she was in obvious pain in her hocks, but my original vet was convinced that the pain was in her back, that is when I switched vets too see if I could find some answers and was given the option of the tendonectomy.
                                    Just wanted to pass the info along so you could store it in your mind if the hock injections don't seem to help.

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                                    • #38
                                      3 days of no work. My vet says turnout is okay but no running. I walk him out to the pasture. Usually his only running is to get TO the pasture. ;-)

                                      Full effect of the injection happens at about 2-3 weeks but you'll see an improvement right away.
                                      Ride like you mean it.

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Sandy M View Post
                                        My horse never showed any signs of hock lameness, but at about age 13 he was moving shorter behind and was less willing to work into the bridle. I never had him x-rayed, but he was positive to hock flexions, equally on both sides. Vet said that was unusual, that they're usually worse one side or the other. I thereafter had him injected at approx. 6 month intervals through age 19 or so, by which time his hocks fused and we no longer needed to inject him. He did very well with the injections over the years and never had any complications. Late in his 20th year, he became lame behind. The hocks were fused, so that wasn't the issue. Sigh. Arthritic stifles. I tried stifle injections twice, but that's a much bigger joint, and it just wasn't working effectively - some improvement, but not enough. He was sound for walking trail rides and that was about it, so, unable to find a sponsor who just wanted laid back trail rides, I retired him.
                                        Really?? Someone thought this was a BAD post? Why? Because I retired a horse that wasn't comfortable being ridden? Or because I was a bad person to have his joints injected?

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                                        • #40
                                          Sandy M that is waht I was advised. The Legend to maintain hock injections. The injections were Depo Medrol.
                                          ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                                          http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

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