• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Teen student abusing her horse - WTD?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #81
    Originally posted by skykingismybaby1 View Post
    I teach theraputic riding, and I have hauled riders off their horse. I have done it for safety reasons, but also concern for the horse. If a rider student of mine starts bouncing or kicking - off they come.

    I remember one mom of a severly autistic boy yelling at me as I was hauling him off a pony. "Drop him!, dont hurt your back"

    No matter how disabled, I will not allow behaviors that put the horse or the rider at risk. I stop the ride first and communicate to the rider, I will try this as many times as I am comfortable but will end the ride by hauling the rider off the horse if I feel I need to. This has only happened twice.

    If my standards for severly disabled kids allows this why should an able bodied rider get away with more?

    intent? it is one thing to haul someone off a horse for their safety and another to do it because you dont like what they are doing to their own horse.

    look - folks can do as they please.

    i am just passing along what i have been taught - from an event security POV - just a heads up if you will.

    I suggest that anyone involved with minors should check with their local laws etc just so they know where the line is, so to speak. Then you will know.

    my "advice" is worth what you paid for it after all

    Comment


    • #82
      To the OP, it does put a very different spin on things if the girl is a hard-working "barn rat" who likes to help out, and not just a riding diva who shows up, rides her horse and goes home every day.

      I admit I had an inherently bad temper when I was growing up (would occasionally break a toy out of anger, etc). When I was in my teens I'm sure I lost my temper while riding a couple of times. Through working with good trainers and my own observation (and working with TBs, who tolerate NO emotional outbursts even if not directed at them) I eventually learned that if I was having a bad day, I might as well just get off my horse and ride another day. However that was definitely a learned skill.

      Beating a horse in a stall is an entirely different story. Like any other misbehaving person or animal who is caught in the middle of wildly inappropriate (and dangerous) behaviour, that person should be IMMEDIATLEY called out and reprimanded. You can discuss the reason for the girl's outburst afterwards, but if you catch your student beating a horse about the head, you physically stop them if you need to do so. They are creating a safety hazard for themselves and others, not to mention the poor horse.

      OP, what did you do when you caught the girl beating the horse? Did you shout and interrupt what was going on, or walk away?

      It sounds like you will have some leverage here because the girl obviously appreciates your barn. You need to make it clear to her that you do NOT approve, nor will you tolerate that type of behavior. That kind of reprimand will likely have a big effect on this girl based on your description of her.

      I'd also discuss with her the nature of horses as prey animals and why her behavior is so unfair (will inevitably cause worse behavior in the horse rather than better) and how her actions will affect later training with the horse due to fear, etc. Play on the empathy factor, and also discuss it from a "cause and effect" standpoint. Make it plain that she will not achieve any goals with the horse or with you as a trainer if she behaves that way, and explain why.

      If she hasn't been called out on this previously, just being called out for it may be enough to make her think twice next time.

      Comment


      • #83
        i am not telling you how i feel about it - i am telling you how the parents and cops/courts will view it.
        talk about over reaction...I have dealt with bad behaviour over the years and have never been arrested nor sued. The sad part is usually the parents thank me...because they are too soft on their kids. I just don't tolerate such behaviour at any age.
        My favorite thing to say to the kids is "don't talk to me like that, I am not your mother" And believe me, they get the point.

        I had a kid who wanted to canter on her 4th lesson. I said no, you need to be more balanced. when I turned my back she kicked the horse with both legs while he was already trotting forward...I told her to bring him back to a walk and if she did that again I would take her off the horse.

        How in the world is that going to get me arrested? she knew I meant business and apologized. If I ignored her I would be contributing to the deliquency of a minor
        Humans don’t mind duress, in fact they thrive on it. What they mind is not feeling necessary. –Sebastian Junger

        Comment


        • #84
          Bogey2 - what you describe is very different.... and no where near abuse physical or verbal....

          my only point was just to say - to protect yourself find out where the lines are - so you don't cross one inadvertently. seems like a logical thing to suggest??

          Comment


          • #85
            From a non-mom, non-professional horse owner: my thoughts.

            IMO, a trainer has responsibility not only for teaching a student how to ride safely and effectively, but also to insure the welfare of the horse in the process. No matter who's horse it is. In my conversation w/ parents I would explain this and tell them that if she gets too harsh w/ horse in a lesson, you will stop the lesson and make her put the horse away. If you catch her in the stall getting after the horse, you will tell her to leave the stall and the barn for that day. As parents they should hopefully understand the difference between discipline and abuse...
            Beyond that, its pretty much up to you how involved you want to be with her.

            By the way, I can't help but wonder: where are parents while she is riding? Does she get dropped off and left or is she driving age? At one of my past barns, I saw a number of kids dropped and left; interestingly they were all a handful to deal w/.
            And lastly, if she does like the barn work, perhaps you tell her that if the situations continue that you do not want her around doing that - what if she gets mad and wallops someone else's horse?
            Last edited by 2tempe; Nov. 12, 2012, 01:31 PM. Reason: added a comment
            We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

            Comment


            • #86
              Bogey2 - what you describe is very different.... and no where near abuse physical or verbal
              No one else was recommending physical or verbal "abuse" of the rider either.

              For some reason you are taking this personally and overreacting to suggestions made.

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
                For some reason you are taking this personally and overreacting to suggestions made.
                ??

                yikes! not my intent ....

                i initially responded to folks saying to rip her off her horse, and to protect teh horse etc.

                my point was just be careful.... parents can be weird about their kids.

                <shrug>

                i *am* fascinated with why i am getting thumbs down for suggesting the above - *that* is intriguing to me!

                Comment


                • #88
                  yikes! not my intent ....

                  i initially responded to folks saying to rip her off her horse, and to protect teh horse etc.

                  my point was just be careful.... parents can be weird about their kids.

                  <shrug>
                  That's not how your posts read earlier in the thread- perhaps you have edited. You were saying things like - you don't have the right to do this and that.

                  You seem to have backpedaled a bit on that. but, no, clearly you were expressing your opinion differently earlier in the thread.

                  As for the thumbs up/down- I just ignore those..

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    I can only relate to myself as a teen, (I'm in my 20s now).

                    I didn't have the anger issues that you describe this girl has, but I definitely took things out on my poor horse, and felt horrible afterwards.

                    It took an awesome coaches to help me through it. I put a ton of pressure on myself, and if things weren't going well when I was riding everything would go down hill fast. I did a lot of my day to day schooling alone, as I shipped to my lessons. It took awhile but the big things that were established (that I still use today, I can have a horrible temper) were if you're schooling something and it just isn't working go do something completely different, like a hack. If my temper just wasn't going to be diffused I was told to get off, even if it meant we didn't work through the issue, get off and put the horse away. I can also feel when it's building up inside of me, and on those days I don't ride, I go to the gym.

                    If she has a lot of built up anger she may need an outlet for it, my favourite thing to do when I'm in a mood where no one will even talk to me is to go to the gym and go a couple round with a punching bag, crank up the stair mill until I'm essentially running up it, or lift some heavy weights.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Hmm...haven't heard from the OP in some time.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
                        That's not how your posts read earlier in the thread- perhaps you have edited. You were saying things like - you don't have the right to do this and that.

                        You seem to have backpedaled a bit on that. but, no, clearly you were expressing your opinion differently earlier in the thread.
                        .
                        i have not edited the content of any of my posts here.... i am dyslexic so my spelling sucks and sometimes i edit for that... it will say on my posts whether they have been edited or not....

                        i am editing this to add (and i didnt change anything above here) that my post #54 was edited - i changed the word Physiologist to psychologist - other than that my posts are what they are - bad spelling and all ;-)

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          I said "perhaps edited" because I just did a quick skim but see now that the earlier comments about it being a matter of "rights" are still there.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Lauralyn: "(I feel I can see her mentally check out when she gets angry)."

                            As you talk with her/her parents about this situation, verbalize what you see as she mentally 'checks out'. Is it an expression on her face? A visible tensing of her body? Something else? Ask her to think to a time when she's lost it and see if SHE can recognize these signs.

                            After you talked with them and come to some sort of 'contractual' agreement about behaviour modification, you could incorporate a signal (a word, a phrase) that you'll say to this girl when you see her 'checking out'. And include that she MUST respond positively to that signal.

                            Good luck! I'm interested in hearing updates.

                            Carol
                            www.ayliprod.com
                            Equine Photography in the Northeast

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              I love a lot of the suggestions here. I also wonder whether part of plan could be to videotape her rides, with her knowledge and the understanding that you both will review them to help her improve her riding. If you were in the habit of videotaping, and one of these episodes occurred, you would be able to show her how it looks from the outside. I wouldn't pose it as "We're going to institute videotaping so you can see how BADLY you treat your horse" but rather "This is another tool we are going to begin to use to improve your riding and horsemanship. Let's see what we can see." I think that the potential for reward here is HUGE, even though it's not super convenient.
                              Disclaimer: My mom told me that people might look at my name and think I had an addiction other than horses. I don't; his name was Bravado.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by WhiteCamry View Post
                                Get these violent outbursts on video; then she can see for herself what she looks like when you show them to her.
                                I was going to suggest this... if she's remorseful afterwards, maybe if she see's herself in the act it will make an impact.
                                Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                                Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
                                "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  I long for the day of former cavalry officers as instructors. None of this backside kissing and constant praise for simply riding a straight line. You worked HARD and the horse ALWAYS came first and received praise. The rider typically just wasn't told what to fix when they were doing it correctly. They're humans and can figure out silence is praise. Horses can't. Horses must be encouraged. Bad human behavior could remove your right to ride your horse and your parents agreed. Dang, we're raising a lot of hot house pansies these days.
                                  "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    I agree with the people who say have a little sit-down with both parents and the student. Maybe she does have some anger issues (then again who didn't as a teenager), but it needs to be made clear that 1)Bullying a horse in your barn is just as horrible as bullying someone in school. Taking advantage of or venting anger on anyone, human or animal, is wrong and will not stand in your barn. 2)You are there to support the family in setting girl and horse up for success in the best way for them, which may mean her taking some time off from handling the horse outside of a lesson situation. That may mean being a non-parent adult for the girl to talk to or following the advice of a psychologist in helping her overcome some of her issues. Good luck! This is a difficult situation.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      OP: Sent you a PM!

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by North Dakota View Post
                                        I can only relate to myself as a teen, (I'm in my 20s now).

                                        I didn't have the anger issues that you describe this girl has, but I definitely took things out on my poor horse, and felt horrible afterwards.

                                        It took an awesome coaches to help me through it. I put a ton of pressure on myself, and if things weren't going well when I was riding everything would go down hill fast. I did a lot of my day to day schooling alone, as I shipped to my lessons. It took awhile but the big things that were established (that I still use today, I can have a horrible temper) were if you're schooling something and it just isn't working go do something completely different, like a hack. If my temper just wasn't going to be diffused I was told to get off, even if it meant we didn't work through the issue, get off and put the horse away. I can also feel when it's building up inside of me, and on those days I don't ride, I go to the gym.

                                        If she has a lot of built up anger she may need an outlet for it, my favourite thing to do when I'm in a mood where no one will even talk to me is to go to the gym and go a couple round with a punching bag, crank up the stair mill until I'm essentially running up it, or lift some heavy weights.
                                        Especially a good idea if some of it is due to hormones being out of control. And teens have a lot of those issues!
                                        "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                        Comment


                                        • There are definite issues with this child.The parents need to be informed and the child needs to be told that abusing an animal is not allowed in your barn. What ever her problems are she has to learn she can't strike out at innocent animals. There are too many people out in the world who do that. Her rage is aimed at the horse because she dare not do it to anyone else. You have to be very careful how you do this.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X