• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

what is the purpose of this action?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • what is the purpose of this action?

    long time lurker, first time poster.

    say a horse is *blowing through your aids "

    what is the purpose of raising/lifting the inside rein ( the horse twists his head around to the height of the rider's shoulder or a little below and booting with the inside leg/or whip making the horse cross the hindend/yield it (like making a turn on the forehand)

    what I witnessed was quite abrupt.

    the purpose of this would be what??

    I thought the proper way to solve this would be to stop the horse and ask for what you wanted again.

    I know you all were not there, but just wanted to ask for some opinions.

    Thanks !

  • #2
    I would say it depends what my horse is doing. If he fully understands something and is just being a jerk about complying, I subscribe to the ask, tell, make school of thought. I will MAKE what I asked happen.

    Now, if my horse is doing the wrong thing because he doesn't understand, I'll explain it a different way until he gets it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TheHorseComesFirst View Post
      what is the purpose of raising/lifting the inside rein ( the horse twists his head around to the height of the rider's shoulder or a little below and booting with the inside leg/or whip making the horse cross the hindend/yield it (like making a turn on the forehand)

      what I witnessed was quite abrupt.

      Thanks !
      The people I've seen do this don't do it so abruptly and don't pull the nose to the shoulder, but they do lift the inside rein and give a decent tap with the inside leg. When I've seen this it is for a horse that hangs on and won't get off the inside rein with other methods, so lifting the inside rein takes it away from the horse, but the leg aid drives the horse into the outside rein (hopefully).

      Maybe the person you saw do this thought they were doing similarly but they are more aggressive in their actions?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TheHorseComesFirst View Post

        what is the purpose of raising/lifting the inside rein ( the horse twists his head around to the height of the rider's shoulder or a little below and booting with the inside leg/or whip making the horse cross the hindend/yield it (like making a turn on the forehand)
        .......

        I thought the proper way to solve this would be to stop the horse and ask for what you wanted again.
        Hmm, your description of the horse's head twisted around and "at the height of the rider's shoulder" doesn't seem to be a very productive correction. But I wasn't there, so I'm just guessing....Twisting the head around is usually counter-productive since that just lets the horse pop a shoulder and blow through your aids even more. However, I've sometimes had to do an ugly counterbend onto the outside rein + lots of leg to balance out a horse who is being a pig and hanging on one rein. You have to be careful not to PULL, though!

        Depending on the horse, "stopping the horse" and asking again is a recipe for escalation. When my lease mare is being a pig, my instructor tells me to go "more forward! I don't care where!!!!". Along with that, I am supposed to get her straight. No leg yielding or anything until we get forward and even in the bridle. 10 meter circles, however, can be very useful.

        Comment


        • #5
          Are you sure that the horse was intentionally lifted to the height of the rider's shoulder, or was that the reaction of the horse and the rider was following it within the correction?

          FWIW, as a rider, if someone came up to me after a ride to sincerely ask about a correction I was making- what I felt the issue was in the horse that I was addressing and how I felt the correction would help it, I'd be happy to explain.

          Comment


          • #6
            Either it is a pulley rein gone bad (one doesnt kick) OR it is an action of extreme lateral hyper flexion with rider pulling back on inside rein in order to get what they *think* is proper longitudinal flexion (short/btv/submissive).

            The later is a misunderstanding of how lateral flexion (NEVER by pulling back and never by torqueing) should give you longitudinal flexion. One can just lift the inside rein. And if the horse is not going forward, that comes from the longitudinal flexion first mentality in the first place.
            I.D.E.A. yoda

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I forgot to say, that I ask this with I should have asked since it was my horse the trainer was riding...

              The I am most certain the rider lifted to that height intentionally. for what purpose I haven't a clue. I am thinking it had something to do with getting my horse off the inside leg.

              this was way smaller than a 10m it was basically a fast paced turn on the forehand with a lot of bend.

              He is an older horse with carpal arthritis that has been recently injected, I am worried about that type of correction with him. :S


              this was way smaller than a 10m it was basically a fast paced turn on the forehand with a lot of bend.

              I am sure the trainer is way more knowledgeable Than I. so I will ask her, in the meantime, more opinions are appreciated. even in PM form.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like a poorly executed Demi arret with a splash of one rein stop and a pinch of yahoo nonsense.
                To correct a horse incorrectly weighting the inside shoulder (which will feel like laying on the inside leg) I'd do leg yields to the wall, reinforcing with a whip, or renvers, or walk pirouettes...depending on the horse's education level
                www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                chaque pas est fait ensemble

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sounds like a poorly executed Demi arret with a splash of one rein stop and a pinch of yahoo nonsense.
                  To correct a horse incorrectly weighting the inside shoulder (which will feel like laying on the inside leg) I'd do leg yields to the wall, reinforcing with a whip, or renvers, or walk pirouettes...depending on the horse's education level
                  www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                  chaque pas est fait ensemble

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If my guy is blowing through my aids and hanging on the inside rein I will pick up the inside rein a bit and kick with the inside leg then drop him. It's not as dramatic as your saying at all. We still go straight down the line. No turning involved just lifting a bit and a kick to say hey, your not listening. I then drop him for a brief sec., very short, and pick him back up. This wakes him up and he goes ok I'll do it. It also helps get him on the outside rein and to carry himself.
                    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                      Sounds like a poorly executed Demi arret with a splash of one rein stop and a pinch of yahoo nonsense.
                      To correct a horse incorrectly weighting the inside shoulder (which will feel like laying on the inside leg) I'd do leg yields to the wall, reinforcing with a whip, or renvers, or walk pirouettes...depending on the horse's education level
                      I would add a sprinkle of frustration on the part of the rider.
                      Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        it also sounds like the rider may not have had as good a grip on the outside rein as s/he should have and the horse overbent. or was this a repetitive thing?
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        Gravity works, and the laws of physics are a bitch.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sounds like a poorly executed one rein stop to me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's hard to watch tough corrections on your own horse. I try to keep perspective with these types of questions:

                            - Did it fix the horse?
                            - Was he better to ride afterwards?
                            - Was he better, the same, or worse to ride the next day?
                            - Did the horse eventually understand what was being asked of him and did he seem to accept it, or simply submit?
                            Last edited by retrofit; Nov. 9, 2012, 12:58 PM.
                            "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." - The Little Prince

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              um.

                              get a new trainer.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Did you ask the trainer?

                                Was it repeatedly?

                                Was the horse acting up?

                                Is it known for running through the aids?
                                ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                                http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I've seen some cowboy trainers do this, something to do with getting the hindquarters to cross. Watching your horse be tightly corrected is difficult. I think it would be better for you and your horse if you would speak to the trainer.
                                  Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I'll vote with MBM...definitely get a different trainer...before your horse gets hurt. If this trainer is willing to yank your horse around in front of you like that, just what might you imagine is going on behind the barn when you are not there as witness?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I'm not sure what your background is with the horse/trainer, but I'm gonna have to throw my hat in with the "talk to your trainer and think about getting a new one" camp. If this was a one-off event and you're overall happy with the riding, that's one thing. But if something is making you fundamentally uneasy about the situation, listen to your gut. It's important to remember that just because the situation isn't right for you/your horse, doesn't mean that you're telling the trainer she's bad. It just isn't right for you guys. Understanding the distinction helps ending a variety of horse-related relationship when it's best for your horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I'll assume this isn't a rhetorical question.

                                        The purpose of all of this for a horse "blowing through the aids" is to get him to give to the bit immediately.

                                        Leaving the crude rider aside, the rough treatment is for a horse who has either done something dangerous like bolted without any give in his mouth, or who has been made very dull in his mouth. Raising the hand is about getting the horse to flex his pole as well as his neck to one side. Or, it's about not allowing a horse who is rooting down to keep doing that with his strong neck.

                                        That's only the first half. The small circle and kicking the hind end sideways is another piece of getting the horse to give in front. The trainer kept circling (small, or even the forelegs on a smaller circle than the hind end) because she hadn't felt the horse give with his inside hind leg yet and really soften on the inside rein.

                                        In actuality, the end goal is the opposite: One should care more about what the hind end is doing than the head or mouth. And most of the riding should come from the leg and seat, not the hand at all. And in most cases, this circling shouldn't go on and on. But bad trainers combined with horses who have not been taught to soften in the bridle from leg or hand, and who have been made mentally and physically dull sometimes get this treatment.
                                        The armchair saddler
                                        Politically Pro-Cat

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X