• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

DQs, please educate me!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • DQs, please educate me!

    I just watched a sale video of a beautiful friesian gelding, just looking for fun, definitely not in the market right now. I have never been around friesians, I come from the eventing world, but I noticed that his trot looked very different from the horses I'm used to riding. His gaits didn't look choppy at all; his rider was sitting the trot easily, he was an awesome mover. But his stride seemed a lot shorter, quicker, and a little more up and down then say, a TB or WB that really reaches out and has a more "floating" step.

    I'm assuming that this is a breed thing? Obviously they are a lot heavier and thicker, so it makes sense that they wouldn't have as big of a range of motion as a longer, leaner type. Is this a hendrence in the upper levels? Or is it an advantage? Is one type preferred above the other? I don't know a lot about what is looked for, what is considered right, in the judge's eyes.

    Just curious, I know the fundementals are all the same, but I'm not as familiar with the opinions and training methods of true dressage as I am with eventing dressage.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by talkofthetown; Nov. 2, 2012, 04:39 PM.

  • #2
    I have ridden a few and have some pics in my blog of one who could step out quite a bit if I ever got that neck out correctly

    I think a lot of them have very nice shoulders but obviously like any breed they have their really good prospects and ones that are not quite built perfection for sport.

    If you look into the dressage bred ones they are actually quite nice.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      Expanding on the above: One thing to remember about Freisians is that they have been bred primarily to be carriage horses - thus the action at the trot and the upright neck/head, and not much focus on a quality canter. In more recent years, there has been more of a focus on them as riding horses, particularly in dressage. Breeders of dressage type horses have worked to improve the canter. If you are going to think about buying one, it would help to do some homework on the breeding thing - as w/ any other breed, all Freisians are not equal...

      I see a fair number at lower levels; I can't think of any at the upper levels at the moment, but that doesn't mean they aren't there! I have a friend who shows a freisian cross, he is doing very well, schooling second level and is just a little work machine. Love him.
      We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

      Comment


      • #4
        Good advise in both the posts above for you! When you are trying to find a dressage prospect or evaluate a going horse there are a ton of things to consider which does not make it easy.

        First off, do you really LOVE that breed? If your answer is YES!, then you need to buckle down and do a lot of homework. The Friesian breed was bred to pull the carriages of European aristocrats. They were bred to be docile with straight up and down movement. That's very flashy and exactly the opposite of what you need for dressage.

        For a number of years, selective breeding has been producing a horse that retains the docile temperament and has smoothed out the high stepping into more ground reaching gaits suitable for dressage. Due to their carriage pulling background the Friesians tend to have huge shoulders in the carriage bloodlines.

        The guidelines for picking a Friesian are the same as any other breed. When the horse trots does his hock line up vertically with his croup? Does his walk overtrack in a monstrous amount? Is his wither higher than his croup? Are the legs straight? Is his croup connection well muscled? When he canters is there space and more between the hind legs as they pass each other? Is there room in his throat latch so he has sufficient room to breathe when engaging his hindquarters? One of the biggest things for the carriage horse bloodlines, does he push from behind or pull from up front?

        The folks I that run into here that have them swear by their temperament, no shutdowns, no temper tantrums.

        In my area we have a number of Friesians that working in the lower levels and in the FEI levels. If you can find "the ONE", I'd say go for it.

        Good Luck!

        Comment


        • #5
          There were two Fresians competing at Grand Prix level at the Australian Championships last weekend.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by talkofthetown View Post
            Just curious, I know the fundementals are all the same, but I'm not as familiar with the opinions and training methods of true dressage as I am with eventing dressage.

            Thanks!
            I have been eventing for over 30 years. There should be NO difference between "true" dressage and "eventing" dressage.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by runnyjump View Post
              I have been eventing for over 30 years. There should be NO difference between "true" dressage and "eventing" dressage.
              Well, no, there shouldn't be, but if you've been eventing for over 30 years, you know that for a while, there was a pretty big difference. Much better now, there are some who would be super competitive in the dressage arena. That said, often times some of the riders best phase is clearly not dressage, which doesn't help their horses any. The dressage phase of eventing has improved dramatically over the last decade.

              I don't think the poster meant offense, I think she's just seen the rides where the rider clearly put less emphasis on dressage than a clean/fast xc round.

              Which is exactly what I would do

              Comment


              • #8
                I often prefer upper level eventing dressage to the similar 3rd/4th level straight dressage.

                What eventing dressage seems to lack compared to straight dressage is movement through the back and softness through the whole body. That comes both from the skill set needed for eventers and the tension horses who know they're going to run and jump the next day tend to carry. Friesians also tend to lack movement through the back, which tends to make them far easier to sit, so it's both a plus and a minus.

                There are some very unfortunately conformed Friesians, and some very nice ones. If someone were looking for a Friesian/Friesian-x dressage prospect, I would strongly recommend against one built like my mom's trail horse. However, I have known some who were nicely talented in dressage and could have mobile backs, sit nicely with hocks under them, etc. We just had a purebred stallion retire from GP dressage last year, and he was lovely and fun to watch. He was no international competitor, but he could do the job.

                Every Friesian or Friesian cross I have been around had personality similarities. There's a certain pigheadedness, and a common tendency to try to drag their humans around with their shoulders. However, each of them were able to get past that to show they had more ability than originally thought, and the "laziness" seemed to disappear as they turned out to appear to actually enjoy and thrive in work. I prefer horses who verge on oversensitive and are therefore unforgiving of rider mistakes, which is opposite to Friesians, so they aren't my type of preferred ride, but playing with my mom's mare as a dressage horse has been fun, and she surprises me by applying my request to sit more into "how about half steps?" and her tendency to start each ride where the previous ride ended, really hanging onto her training. They aren't for everyone, but have some definite pluses.
                If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                -meupatdoes

                Comment


                • #9
                  Doubtless *not* the education you meant, but there's no apostrophe in DQs when it refers to the plural of DQ. Apostrophe goes in when it's a possessive "The DQ's hair was a wreck."

                  On topic ... I don't think the movement is a hindrance at upper levels if their training is solid, but their conformation tends to be chest-strong and upper level work requires a LOT of strength in the back end. I think they can be spectacular but it's the exception.
                  *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
                    Well, no, there shouldn't be, but if you've been eventing for over 30 years, you know that for a while, there was a pretty big difference. Much better now, there are some who would be super competitive in the dressage arena. That said, often times some of the riders best phase is clearly not dressage, which doesn't help their horses any. The dressage phase of eventing has improved dramatically over the last decade.

                    I don't think the poster meant offense, I think she's just seen the rides where the rider clearly put less emphasis on dressage than a clean/fast xc round.

                    Which is exactly what I would do
                    Yes, it has improved drastically over the years, however the OP said this: "not as familiar with the opinions and training methods of true dressage." There should never be a difference in training methods. Classical training is classical regardless of final intention.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You are either forward and supple or you are not in either discipline. Eventing has as much ugly dressage as you can expect with people who cannot train for one thing only but they do have forward usually in the bag lol

                      I have seen enough lovely 3rd/4th leve plain dressagel riding to say that there is plenty of nice rides there too (regular dressage). Funny, all of the top level horses that we love were once 3rd/4th LOL
                      ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                      http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
                        I have seen enough lovely 3rd/4th leve plain dressagel riding to say that there is plenty of nice rides there too (regular dressage). Funny, all of the top level horses that we love were once 3rd/4th LOL
                        Funny, most of them probably didn't show at that level, particularly not the local shows I've been to, as my comparison was based upon what I see personally.
                        If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                        -meupatdoes

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
                          I don't think the poster meant offense, I think she's just seen the rides where the rider clearly put less emphasis on dressage than a clean/fast xc round.

                          Which is exactly what I would do

                          Exactly I understand there should NOT be, but I also have seen that there IS.

                          Originally posted by AllWeatherGal View Post
                          Doubtless *not* the education you meant, but there's no apostrophe in DQs when it refers to the plural of DQ. Apostrophe goes in when it's a possessive "The DQ's hair was a wreck."
                          My inner grammar nazi is aghasted! Many thanks for the correction!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Firstly, not a DQ. Dressage was my first discipline but I have since switched to eventing. Hence why I will not comment on the remarks regarding the dressage phase of eventing.

                            Just wanted to add that I rode/trained a Grand Prix level friesian. He was an exceptionally smooth ride and surprisingly light. One of the easiest and most fun rides to date. He would do anything and everything BUT, I did find that he tired very easily. The same woman who owned him also owned another full blooded friesian and a TBxFriesian cross. The other friesian was a baroque type, which are more carriage-built and have the strides of which OP speaks. She was lower-level and comfortable where she was, but was not a candidate for the upper-levels. The TBxFriesian was...awful. My least favorite horse I've ridden/trained to date hahaha. I always joked inwardly that he got all the traits if the inbred friesian breed.

                            Of course friesians can be lovely dressage mounts. It really depends on the type. There are three types: Baroque or "heavy weight" (the carriage horse), "medium weight" (most common and most often seen at the lower-levels) or "light weight." In any case, I think they're beautiful.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It definitely depends on the horse, but you can also look at the bloodlines too. I knew two Grand Prix stallions and both were successful in show. But, both had very different movement and conformation. One was an absolute powerhouse and you had to be so strong to sit his trot. The other was very easy and push button. Both horses made it to the top level but you also have to have an exceptional rider as well, Friesians must be ridden correctly or it's a big ol' mess, you have a lot of horse to put together.

                              Like the others have said, for what they were bred for, they aren't going to float as readily as a warmblood. Friesians have great, forgiving temperaments, are a lot fo fun and just beautiful to boot.
                              I LOVE my Chickens!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X