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Spinoff: Major rider flaws when asking for contact

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  • #21
    you wont get none of it if your position isnt right which it isnt as your stirrups are to long, and you tend to cycle round the bend as if your on a bike
    you tend to lean into it, so you drop your shoulder which lucky for you your horse is honest- and counter balances your mistakes

    look here read page one about how to alter your stirrups correctly
    http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178116
    page 1


    do more work on your sitting trot and rising trot as you come up like stick

    think- if sitting your holdong a tube of toothpaste between your bum cheeks and the saddle so and dont drop it

    if rising its a sit and squirk- not a si and blast the higher you go up the harder you come down on on your horses back

    keep your hands still- and dont fiddle with the riens as this only confuses the horse

    Comment


    • #22
      What Ideayoda and mbm said. The first thing that I noticed is that your elbows are quite "locked" up. That's a common problem.

      If you could concentrate on keeping your hands quiet and use your elbows like a well-greased "hinge", you'd be surprised how that changes things.

      Often it's one thing at a time to concentrate on...and that would be my first one.
      www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
      "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
      Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Agreed with everyone on the busy hands and elbows. As for the stirrups, my trainer thinks they're the right size. In fact, I tend to pinch with my knee when giving leg aids, i have to be reminded to leg my legs go down so if the stirrups were shorter I think I might be doing even worse. Not to say I don't consider your advice good advice, but I'm gonna have to trust my trainer on this one.
        Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

        Originally posted by DottieHQ
        You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

        Comment


        • #24
          My guess is that if you concentrate on unlocking you elbows and making them fluid, some of the lower body issues you've mentions (like pinching with your knees) may become less problematic.

          If your elbows are locked, then your really riding with your shoulders...and that screws up the lower body issues, esp. if the stirrup is to long and you find yourself "reaching" for them.
          www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
          "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
          Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #25
            I'm not reaching for them, though, I just have trouble keeping my toes in the right position. Foot position fail. My BO (who is a coach for the Olympic dressage team) had me riding with the stirrups 2 holes down one day, just to show me how much my heel still needs to go down. Then I really was reaching for the stirrups, but I also realized on how much my leg still gets hung up and tense. If I ride without stirrups I can get my leg down an relaxed, when I put my stirrups on, my leg goes back to the old bent-knee position. My trainer says if I learn to relax my leg, then the rest of the body will follow. One thing I know for sure: my core still needs lots of work.
            Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

            Originally posted by DottieHQ
            You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

            Comment


            • #26
              I haven't read all of the posts so if I repeat, sorry.

              Yes, your stirrups are a bit too long, and, yes, your arms are straight our in front of you which takes away the flexion of your elbows. That flexion is the shock absorber from the bit to the shoulder to the seat.

              If you take a drerssage whip and place it behind (eta: the whip would run sideways so the handle would be sticking out on one side, and the tail would be sticking out on the other side) the middle of your back running it through the BEND in your elbows and carry it there using the BEND in your elbows you will begin to get the feel of where they should be, and the whip will not allow your arms to be pulled forward and become stiff.
              Last edited by BaroquePony; Oct. 21, 2012, 12:10 PM.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Niennor View Post
                Well, my phrasing is probably not the best. I know you're not supposed to make a horse move into contact, but rather guide him into accepting the bit and seek the contact. It's easier said than done, though.

                Yes his shoulder tends to fall out when I turn. I've been trying to work on it by flexing him a bit to the inside when I try to get him to pick up the contact.
                That's the way you're riding though. Your hands are too low and braced, which is making you stiff all over. That's why your horse is resisting.

                Comment


                • #28
                  OP try riding with one hand it will give you gobs of interesting information

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
                    That's the way you're riding though. Your hands are too low and braced, which is making you stiff all over. That's why your horse is resisting.
                    Makes sense. Lucky for me i have an honest honest and he tries to make up for my mistakes.

                    Originally posted by mbm View Post
                    OP try riding with one hand it will give you gobs of interesting information
                    I'll b sure to give it a try one i get rid of this annoying flu. Figures I'd get sick when i have a few days off work
                    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

                    Originally posted by DottieHQ
                    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Lol but Linda parrelli says lock you elbows. Geesshh. I understand your pain. I get a little handsey sometimes and forget to use my leg. Ughhh but the trainer is on me about that and it is getting better. Also I tend to not keep my fingers closed on the outside rein. Been working on that also. Then i also have that using my leg pinching with knee and bringing heel up. That has proven a harder habit to break.
                      Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Originally posted by rabicon View Post
                        Lol but Linda parrelli says lock you elbows.
                        *snort* You just made my day!

                        Originally posted by rabicon View Post
                        Geesshh. I understand your pain. I get a little handsey sometimes and forget to use my leg. Ughhh but the trainer is on me about that and it is getting better. Also I tend to not keep my fingers closed on the outside rein. Been working on that also. Then i also have that using my leg pinching with knee and bringing heel up. That has proven a harder habit to break.
                        I get so hung up on the horse's head sometimes that I forget to relax my arms. Not trying to force him into any kind of frame, mind you, I'm just looking at his neck trying to use my mind powers to wish it to relax
                        Of course it's a bit silly to want the horse to relax if i don't relax myself first Oh... if my trainer had a dollar for each time he says "bend your elbows!" and "keep your shoulders straight!" he might have bought another horse by now
                        Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

                        Originally posted by DottieHQ
                        You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Here are a couple of things that may help you and improve your "feel" and unlock you and, as a result, your horse (image-based).

                          1) When it comes to your elbow situation, think about being the Tin Woodsman in the Wizard of Oz. Visually grab that oil can and loosen up that rust that keeps them locked and allows them to be hinges again. It's a very hard habit to break, so look at your elbows constantly throughout your ride -- or have a groundsman alert you when you are locking up and become "rigid", albeit unknowingly.

                          2) Forget about the head for now -- and just think about riding the shoulders evenly (not sure if I'm articulating this very well). If you can finesse the shoulders (with a well- greased elbow and a nice centered posture) the rest will start fall into place over time as you change your focus.

                          Sounds silly maybe, but those are two "little" things that helped me tremendously.

                          Thought I'd just pass this on. 2 things a very wonderful GP rider/instructor had me do many years ago and stick with me today.
                          www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                          "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                          Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Thanks for the advice, sid. I'll make sure that bent elbows and straight shoulders are my first priority from now on. As for the head, my trainer has decided that until I develop a more correct posture I will be riding in gogue reins, which will encourage the horse to use the correct muscles for engaging his hacks and keeping a rounded outline, while i work on my upper body.

                            If you're not familiar with gogue reins (they're more common in europe), this is what they look like:
                            http://www.ekkia.co.uk/common/imges_...02_300x300.jpg

                            I used them for one ride and already felt a great change in attitude, with the hose relaxing the poll even at the walk, so i think it'll be a great tool.
                            Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

                            Originally posted by DottieHQ
                            You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Niennor View Post
                              I will be riding in gogue reins, which will encourage the horse to use the correct muscles for engaging his hacks and keeping a rounded outline, while i work on my upper body.
                              auxilary reins do nothing for teaching the horse how to work forward into a connection nor do they teach the rider how to ride the horse correctly.

                              i would ditch the reins and just work on forward, bended lines and soft connection.

                              these kind of reins use leverage to force the head down and use different muscles than what would be used by engaging the hind end and the horse reaching towards the bit....

                              so i would ask trainer to please teach you how to use your body without them if possible.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I agree with poster above, gogue reins are a bad idea. Please think seriously about this.

                                I'm not good with left and right but one side of your body is quite weak I noticed from the video. If you're right handed it's probably the left. So grab a squeezy ball and squeeze to strengthen your weak hand/arm. Do crunches to strengthen your core.

                                Whoever said run a whip through your elbows is spot on. Do that. Alot. If your elbows are not bent and receptive, you'll never get it. Think of it this way: ride your horses shoulders with your elbows, not his head with your hands.

                                Youtube is your friend. Watch videos of your favorite GP riders. Notice how they ride, study it. Have your mom or whoever is holding the video camera bring a picture of them with her when you ride and ask her to compare/contrast the picture with you.

                                Relax. My big breakthrough moment was when my instructor took my reins and stirrups away from me and made me ride my huge moving horse on the lunge until I just got too exhausted to fight the movement. The moment I relaxed into him and gave up was the moment I got my reins back. After that we zoomed from training level to 3rd in a year or so.

                                This is hard stuff, really, really hard. It takes years, not months to develop a seat and to be able to say, hey, horse, on the bit now and they do it. They don't go on the bit because you trained a gimmick, they do it because -you- are in self carriage before you even ask them to be. Don't give up.
                                glimmerling


                                Member Appaloosa lovers clique

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Imo the biggest rider flaw in contact lies with the seat. If the seat is not secure the hands can not be quiet. Also if 95% of the ride (pace control, steering, collection, etc) isn't getting done by the seat, the hands are doing too much of the work.
                                  The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                  Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                  Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                  The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    mbm, i beg to differ. While you can have them tight enough to force the head down, if you use them correctly you can use them in the same way you might apply aids that would encourage the horse not to lift its head over the bit. I felt this first hand and I didn't not feel resistance from the horse nor did i feel his back hollow. And of course my leg was there to make sure he kept an active pace.

                                    Do they teach the rider how to ride correctly? No. But they do give me time to work on my posture without having to worry about the horse developing back problems because left on his own he'll be moving along like a giraffe.
                                    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

                                    Originally posted by DottieHQ
                                    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Niennor View Post
                                      Do they teach the rider how to ride correctly? No. But they do give me time to work on my posture without having to worry about the horse developing back problems because left on his own he'll be moving along like a giraffe.
                                      If all they work on is the head and neck then you will get the head and neck down, but the BACK can still be dropped and the hocks out behind. The horse is perfectly capable of getting short/tight/round in the neck and still be on the forehand and tight in the back.

                                      I'm sure in the right circumstance they are valuable, but IMO, you have to already know how to ride back to front and into contact to get the horse engaged and the back up. You can't work it the other way around. If you know how to do that already, they maybe they'll work. If not, I'd ditch them.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by Eventer13 View Post
                                        If all they work on is the head and neck then you will get the head and neck down, but the BACK can still be dropped and the hocks out behind. The horse is perfectly capable of getting short/tight/round in the neck and still be on the forehand and tight in the back.

                                        I'm sure in the right circumstance they are valuable, but IMO, you have to already know how to ride back to front and into contact to get the horse engaged and the back up. You can't work it the other way around. If you know how to do that already, they maybe they'll work. If not, I'd ditch them.
                                        This is why I'll use them with my trainer around only. He can tell me if I'm not riding properly and letting the horse hollow his back. I wouldn't use this kind of training while riding on my own, because i don't feel confident enough to use it properly without someone guiding me. when I ride on my own I'll just try to work on forward and connection, without adding the reins to the mix and we'll see how it works.
                                        Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

                                        Originally posted by DottieHQ
                                        You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          if your trainer wants to work on your seat then use side reins.... but leverage rein only teach the horse to back off the bit and have a false "head set"...

                                          learn to ride the horse forward and bended so that it will seek the bit and use its back correctly - no auxiliary reins needed

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