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Morgan Vs. Parra - article on Dressage-News.com; Rate My Horse Pro link

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  • Morgan Vs. Parra - article on Dressage-News.com; Rate My Horse Pro link

    http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=17775

    More details at Rate My Horse Pro:
    http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/news/j...-to-court.aspx
    Last edited by ise@ssl; Oct. 6, 2012, 11:46 PM.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

  • #2
    What a sorry piece of work! Hard to believe that anybody would do business with him at this point.....
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm glad this is very much out in the open now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh, he'll probably just counter sue for mental anguish and the damage done to his professional image.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
          What a sorry piece of work! Hard to believe that anybody would do business with him at this point.....
          Agreed!

          With all the whispers, I'm glad there was a legit suit out there, on public record, instead of the nasty mudslinging we've seen a lot of which tends to make the individuals slinging mud look as bad as they make him look.
          Originally posted by Silverbridge
          If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

          Comment


          • #6
            Some folks don't use tha same moral compass.
            ... _. ._ .._. .._

            Comment


            • #7
              or any compass at all in Parra's case.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                The Hearing is now scheduled for Tuesday October 16th at 9 AM in the Hunterdon County Justice Center.
                Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

                Comment


                • #9
                  OMG the $ amount rings so true!!! Saw him at Devon. Told him I was looking for a nice teenager's horse. He said he knew of a really nice one for 180,000.00 !!!! I thought he was joking but he was dead serious. Brother...how utterly ridiculous.....FYI he knows I wasn't born yesterday. Was the height of absurdity. Now the figure makes sense....can you say needs cash???

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Uh, can someone translate the legaleez into English? I can't figure out what happened. He sold the horse, then tried to sell it again for less money once it had already sold? Why would anyone do that--wouldn't it be obvious when he couldn't produce the horse twice?
                    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I interpreted it as he sold the horse for 180,000. But, he created paperwork for a "dummy sale" that showed he sold the horse for 100,000. So, as far as the owner knew, he sold the horse for 100,000. Thus, Dr. Parra pocketed the difference of 80,000. I'm sure ON TOP OF collecting a commission on the 100,000!

                      So, buyer pays 180,000 for the horse. Seller thinks the horse sold for 100,000. Dr. Parra is the middleman and makes a killing on the deal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree; I am confused.

                        She had a horse which she traded in part for another horse, with Parra's company paying part of the sum to get the horse, then she took that horse, and did a similar deal with Parras to trade up to the horse in the lawsuit.

                        then I am lost; did the horse really sell for the higher amount, but Paras told her it sold for the lesser amount? Or was it sold twice?
                        Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Inca's interpretation seems to be the correct one. Parra actually sold the horse to Buyer X, but made paperwork to show the co-owner that he sold the horse to Buyer Y for a lesser amount.

                          I get that this is unfortunately a common practice, selling a horse for more than you tell the seller and keeping the difference (didn't Sjef Janssen get sued for doing that here in the states?), but really, in this age of the internet, wouldn't it be too easy to see that the ownership was transferred to a name other than what was on the sale document given to the seller? Meaning that if seller looked it up, ownership would be under Buyer X instead of Buyer Y.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Not to defend CP in any way on this, but I suspect these types of transactions happen far more frequently than most folks realize.

                            Some years back (1997, I believe), Sjef Janssen did much the same thing when he sold a client’s horse for $480,000, but told the client he only got $312,000. The client learned the true price and sued Janssen, and a jury found SJ guilty of fraud. The client was awarded $250,000 in compensatory damages and $250,000 in punitive damages, but as recently as 2010, he had not paid the judgment and the client filed a civil case and had him served while he was in KY for the 2010 WEG. Not sure if he has paid anything since then, but if not, I think he would probably need to be looking over his shoulder a lot whenever he is in the U.S.

                            And there is another very high profile BNT who defrauded a client on a sale for a HUGE amount of money (close to $1 million, I was told), and when the client found out about it and threatened to sue, the BNT’s very wealthy sponsor stepped in and paid the client so she would “go away”. Seems they could not afford a big PR mess because said BNT was trying to get on the U.S. Team.

                            And those are just a few of these cases from the dressage world. I am sure the H/J folks could list a bunch of them, too. The good news is that more and more of these BNTs are getting caught, and more and more of them are getting taken to the cleaners legally.

                            I don’t why these idiot trainers think they can keep these transactions secret. All a seller has to do is watch the USEF or FEI databases and contact the new owner and ask how much she paid for the horse. Sometimes the new owner is as outraged about being scammed as the seller, and is all too willing to cooperate in legal action against the scammer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Miss Dior View Post
                              OMG the $ amount rings so true!!! Saw him at Devon. Told him I was looking for a nice teenager's horse. He said he knew of a really nice one for 180,000.00 !!!! I thought he was joking but he was dead serious. Brother...how utterly ridiculous.....FYI he knows I wasn't born yesterday. Was the height of absurdity. Now the figure makes sense....can you say needs cash???
                              Not related to Parra's case but :

                              What is wrong with a suitable teenager horse for 180K?
                              There is nothing ridiculous about that. Have you ever looked at winning hunter ponies?

                              I don't know your budget but I would never bother to ask a BNT (whoever it might be) for a nice competitive horse under 50K, especially during a major event. Do you think Steffen Peters offers *cheap* horses for sale?

                              This is a business. There is big money involved. You were at Devon, during a show where most horses there are worth A LOT. You asked for a nice teenager horse. Well, competitive young rider horses are usualy quite expensive. A youg barnmate of mine bought hers for around 130K and he had some quirks. She's been able to go from 4th level to GP and went to Devon many times with great scores. You have a problem with that? I don't.

                              I agree that the asking price he gave you and the court order to put aside of 180k could be related but still... I don't find it ''uterly ridiculous'' to sell good horses at that price.
                              ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                              Originally posted by LauraKY
                              I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                              HORSING mobile training app

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                                Not to defend CP in any way on this, but I suspect these types of transactions happen far more frequently than most folks realize.

                                Some years back (1997, I believe), Sjef Janssen did much the same thing when he sold a client’s horse for $480,000, but told the client he only got $312,000. The client learned the true price and sued Janssen, and a jury found SJ guilty of fraud. The client was awarded $250,000 in compensatory damages and $250,000 in punitive damages, but as recently as 2010, he had not paid the judgment and the client filed a civil case and had him served while he was in KY for the 2010 WEG. Not sure if he has paid anything since then, but if not, I think he would probably need to be looking over his shoulder a lot whenever he is in the U.S.

                                And there is another very high profile BNT who defrauded a client on a sale for a HUGE amount of money (close to $1 million, I was told), and when the client found out about it and threatened to sue, the BNT’s very wealthy sponsor stepped in and paid the client so she would “go away”. Seems they could not afford a big PR mess because said BNT was trying to get on the U.S. Team.

                                And those are just a few of these cases from the dressage world. I am sure the H/J folks could list a bunch of them, too. The good news is that more and more of these BNTs are getting caught, and more and more of them are getting taken to the cleaners legally.

                                I don’t why these idiot trainers think they can keep these transactions secret. All a seller has to do is watch the USEF or FEI databases and contact the new owner and ask how much she paid for the horse. Sometimes the new owner is as outraged about being scammed as the seller, and is all too willing to cooperate in legal action against the scammer.
                                The Federal Fraud Case on H/J fully discusses the issue of FRAUD and the consequences of "dealin'" in horses - jail time in a Federal Prison!
                                Kentucky passed a law requiring buyer & seller sign the same document. Both have impacted the sale of horses in the US.
                                Tradition of "Grande" Sporthorse Champions
                                GRANDE SOVEREIGN 2014 USEF 8th Leading HB Sire
                                & Sire of OWN IT - USEF National HB 3yo Champion

                                Grand Affiar, Grande Desire, GR Impression, Couture du Jour

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by yaya View Post
                                  but really, in this age of the internet, wouldn't it be too easy to see that the ownership was transferred to a name other than what was on the sale document given to the seller? Meaning that if seller looked it up, ownership would be under Buyer X instead of Buyer Y.
                                  Not necessarily. Usually the signatures on the transaction are the Agent and I believe that was the case in the CP sale. If the horse sold was a well known FEI horse, then yes, you could trace it back to the new owner. If the horse was a younger horse such as this horse Florence, there is a good chance that the name of the horse was changed. CP does most of his buying and selling in Europe, so it's not as easy to follow the horse sale trails.

                                  Believe it or not, many of these wealthy clients don't even bother to check out details like this. Some don't even care if they are overpaying. Do you think his current sponsor Mr. Davis cares how much extra he pays for a horse, so long as his little girl can win at shows? When you have a lot of money, some things just don't matter.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    The signature might be that of the agent, but the name of the buyer still has to be on the bill of sale. The signature would be "CP as agent for Buyer X".

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by yaya View Post
                                      The signature might be that of the agent, but the name of the buyer still has to be on the bill of sale. The signature would be "CP as agent for Buyer X".
                                      Are you positive that is the way it is in all cases? I don't believe it. I have never bought through an agent, so I can't say based on my experience.

                                      I believe, that when CP buys a client a horse, that client pays CP and he gives them some sort of bill of sale. I do not believe his client knows who owned the horse. I believe CP then pays the agent in Europe and that agent pays the owner of the horse. I do not believe the owner's name is on any of these documents. I reiterate though, that this is just what I think, not what I know for certain.

                                      I have papers on my current imported horse, and for other horses I've owned and those registration papers do not all have signatures that reflect the one or more transfers of ownership of the horse. In other words, I have no idea how many other owners the horse(s) had.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Justice~for~Horses View Post
                                        Believe it or not, many of these wealthy clients don't even bother to check out details like this. Some don't even care if they are overpaying. Do you think his current sponsor Mr. Davis cares how much extra he pays for a horse... When you have a lot of money, some things just don't matter.
                                        I don't understand why you assume that wealthy clients/sponsors/owners
                                        have no understanding of the value of a dollar ?

                                        Yes, I do think Mr. Davis cares about how much he pays for his horses.
                                        Why wouldn't he ? He's a successful businessman and certainly didn't get there without looking at price tags.

                                        Comment

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