• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Horse Boy Dressage - What??

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Horse Boy Dressage - What??

    You know, I think that equine therapy for disabled kids is great, but this guy is a marketing fool going crazy on the success of his book and documentary "The Horse Boy." He's teaching grand prix movements and airs above ground to grade quarter horses and formerly lame warmbloods of uncertain origin? From seeing him ride in the documentary, ug. [edit] He's capable of being the equivalent of a Spanish Riding School head rider in four years? [edit] He should be shown to what he is, but then one would be accused of not being sensitive to the plight of the disabled.

    I'm sorry, but this man has really gotten my ire up. I'm sorry. I feel sorry for these horses, and the uneducated who donate.

    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...58938905_n.jpg
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...42046638_o.jpg
    http://www.horseboyworld.com/about/our-horses.html
    http://www.horseboyworld.com/about/trainers-team.html
    https://www.facebook.com/horseboyworld/photos_stream
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 29, 2012, 04:00 PM.
    You hate that, don’t you? Do you like oysters? You have to acquire a taste for oysters and the deep distance.”
    -- George H. Morris on learning to love the deep distance

  • #2
    Although I agree the whole thing looks ridiculous, why are you so offended that he is using grade or unpedigreed horses (and FORMERLY lame? so what?) horses for doing dressage? I had no idea that only Warmbloods of the highest pedigree are allowed to do dressage higher than intro level!

    Comment


    • #3
      [edit] The website is killing me from the descriptions of the people and horses. Coolest person to walk this planet? Kill me now please.

      Great they are helping kids. Kudos to them.

      What is this horse boy crap anrways?
      Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 29, 2012, 03:55 PM.
      I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.

      Comment


      • #4
        Done
        Last edited by rabicon; Oct. 10, 2012, 08:56 AM.
        Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

        Comment


        • #5
          I admit that I have never heard of this, and I didn't exactly scour the website, but where does it make mention that the quarter horses are grade? Nowhere does it say that they are unregistered, and heck, even if they are grade at least they have some training on them. I know of more than a few registered animals that you can't put intermediates on, let alone beginners or the developmentaly disabled.

          What was killing me is that in a lot of their pictures there were kids riding without helmets. I mean jeez, these kids are already going to have a hard enough time dealing with autism, so lets add the possibility of a traumatic brain injury to the mix.
          It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things.
          Theodore Roosevelt

          Comment


          • #6
            Having done some intro lessons to autistic kids, I think this program could be great for the kids...and the parents. I also understand why some may not be wearing helmets; their tactile senses vary and it can be hard to convince some of them to do some things (such as wear riding helmets).

            I didn't really understand the facebook picture with the two girls laying down though. Maybe we are missing something from it?

            [edit]
            Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 29, 2012, 04:00 PM.
            Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I wrote a really long response on my phone, which died right before I was about to send.

              I'm sorry about the "grade" designation. I've been irritated. What I meant was that most quarter horses or QHx or thoroughbreds, for that matter, don't have the conformation for the maximum collection that grand prix and haute ecole requires.

              The man, the horse boy's father, is training horses to grand prix and haute ecole movements? He hardly has the collective wisdom of centuries as the Spanish Riding school top riders do. On the facebook page, there is a picture of a woman with an insecure seat doing a levade (sort of) on a 17 hand PRE - which he notes has a swayback. Doing haute ecole movements with a conformationally disabled horse? Really?

              Riding double doing tempi changes?

              Kids riding double with no helmets next a kid jumping on a trampoline.
              http://www.horseboyworld.com/images/...1equipment.jpg

              Canter in place, controversial in itself, with the added unbalancing effect of a second person, albeit a child? How fair is that to the horse?
              http://www.horseboyworld.com/images/...collection.jpg

              Public outing, putting what seems like members of the public on these horses, riding double with clogs and no helmets.
              https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...98396865_n.jpg
              Oh, and side reins (Vienna reins) attached to the top ring of a pelham?

              Their version of the training pyramid:
              2 weeks on rhythm
              Week 3 - Contact
              Week 4 - Suppleness

              I emailed back and forth to Rupert right after I read the book about 4 years ago. From watching the film, he is a competent seat of the pants rider, but not educated. His farm, according to him was in the works then, and he didn't have horses in haute ecole training then. Nor did his website indicate then that he did. I really think he is a sham. I feel back for parents desperate from something to help their autistic kids connect with the world. People donate money. People come to them for training in this horse boy method. Although his wife has a PhD in psychology, clearly it takes more than 3-4 years to develop a peer-reviewed method of therapy, yet they offer certification? In what? Not hippotherapy. Not therapeutic riding. Just the horse boy method. I haven't seen anything about any adult being certified in any kind of recognized therapy or counselling. Maybe some kids get a lot out of it, but I get the feeling he is making his reputation on a best selling book that was moving, but still had holes in it. He is using flash with the horse's tricks and eschewing traditional (competitive) dressage methods (and I would say almost any method) dressage with a page on his website: Why People Hate Dressage although it is not filled in yet.

              He endangers the lives of people riding and working around the horses with his lack of experience, the lack of very strong horses conditioned over time to do grand prix and haute ecole movements, incorrect use of equpiment, lack of helmets. To me his methods are exploitive.

              I think he has some videos on You Tube. I can't imagine how I'll feel after I browse them.

              I know I'm speaking to the choir here in most respects.
              You hate that, don’t you? Do you like oysters? You have to acquire a taste for oysters and the deep distance.”
              -- George H. Morris on learning to love the deep distance

              Comment


              • #8
                nevermind, i didnt notice the last post- is see what you mean now
                Last edited by skippy60; Sep. 18, 2012, 07:17 PM. Reason: didnt see the last post!

                Comment


                • #9
                  sure fire way of accidents about to happen hope hes got plenty of insurance

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't see on the website that he is talking about competitive dressage, rather he is thinking of dressage in the context of helping a person/child with autism open up/connect to the world and communicate. I am a little less clear on the instruction that offers to move people up the levels to try advanced moves, but again it sounds like he is talking about non-competitive dressage, and making it seem more accessible...and dressage could help with accessibility!

                    The certification program isn't acredited, but sounds similar to equine assisted therapy, which is usually taken by someone already in the therapy industry, and is an add on to their skills.

                    I have seen the change in an austisic child once on a horse first hand, but the waiting lists to get into a program are long, and the programs are usually for any/all disabilities. Having something more specifically designed is intruiging.

                    [edit]
                    Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 29, 2012, 04:01 PM.
                    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      [edit]

                      Rupert doesn't say he knows why horses help with communication, and I don't doubt that they do. I just get this ugly feeling inside that his charm is getting him somewhere in this without really knowing what he is doing from the horse side of things. His intent is suspect to me.

                      Yes, dressage could use some accessibility. Will it be good for dressage if he is working horses that aren't ready for upper level movements? Is it good for the horses to be worked in these movement being ridden double? He sponsors these "playdates" out in the community getting people on the horses, but without helmets? What happens to the public image of dressage or his stress-free dressage when a child gets hurt because a fall without a helmet? For the sake of the horse and rider, does he really know enough to be training grand prix and haute ecole movements? He claims that the more collected the horse is the more therapeutic the riding is. He claims that "terre a terre" canter (in place) is the best. Is this safe for most horses to do? Is it safe to riding double as he advocates?

                      Lots of questions. I'll adjust the title of the thread to "questionable."

                      Ooops. I tried to change it ... but I can't figure it out ...
                      Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 29, 2012, 04:01 PM.
                      You hate that, don’t you? Do you like oysters? You have to acquire a taste for oysters and the deep distance.”
                      -- George H. Morris on learning to love the deep distance

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [edit]

                        [edit]

                        It looks like his wife, Kristen Neff, is a prof at University of Texas. The website list Jenny Whoever as a Masters student who will be Neff's Graduate Assistant. Presumably the University of Texas pays the GA's tuition and stipend. And presumably Dr. Neff is doing research at this farm/with this program that has some merit.

                        But it looks like she's also getting help with her family business, financed by her employer, U of T, no? And who does her research benefit? It looks like she has a financial stake in the research site, if not the findings.

                        Most universities ask researchers to disclose other sources of income and potential conflicts of interest.

                        ETA: and some copy about her book reads "Kristen's insides into...." They mean "insights." For the love of God, please tell me that the esteemed Dr. Neff didn't write that.
                        Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 29, 2012, 04:02 PM.
                        The armchair saddler
                        Politically Pro-Cat

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by mvp View Post
                          Well there is one place to poke around for one.

                          It looks like his wife, Kristen Neff, is a prof at University of Texas. The website list Jenny Whoever as a Masters student who will be Neff's Graduate Assistant. Presumably the University of Texas pays the GA's tuition and stipend. And presumably Dr. Neff is doing research at this farm/with this program that has some merit.

                          But it looks like she's also getting help with her family business, financed by her employer, U of T, no? And who does her research benefit? It looks like she has a financial stake in the research site, if not the findings.

                          Most universities ask researchers to disclose other sources of income and potential conflicts of interest.

                          ETA: and some copy about her book reads "Kristen's insides into...." They mean "insights." For the love of God, please tell me that the esteemed Dr. Neff didn't write that.
                          LOL, ROTFLMAO

                          I read through a few abstracts ... nothing about autism, although I suppose measuring the ability to have compassion or self-compassion in people with autism is certainly an interesting concept.
                          You hate that, don’t you? Do you like oysters? You have to acquire a taste for oysters and the deep distance.”
                          -- George H. Morris on learning to love the deep distance

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FLeventer View Post
                            [edit] The website is killing me from the descriptions of the people and horses. Coolest person to walk this planet? Kill me now please.

                            FL eventer, I am the coolest person to walk this planet. I need to send him an email, this needs to be rectified ASAP
                            Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 29, 2012, 03:59 PM.
                            www.facebook.com/doggonegoodgoodies
                            http://doggonebakedgoods.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I did notice that it was noted on the portion of the website where each horse is discussed that some of the horses are too advanced/high strung/whatever to be ridden by any of the clientele/kids. I also didn't understand the picture of the horse rearing. How will that skill ever be helpful for any of these kids???

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by MunchingonHay View Post
                                FL eventer, I am the coolest person to walk this planet. I need to send him an email, this needs to be rectified ASAP
                                <snortlaugh>
                                You hate that, don’t you? Do you like oysters? You have to acquire a taste for oysters and the deep distance.”
                                -- George H. Morris on learning to love the deep distance

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Carolinadreamin' View Post
                                  I did notice that it was noted on the portion of the website where each horse is discussed that some of the horses are too advanced/high strung/whatever to be ridden by any of the clientele/kids. I also didn't understand the picture of the horse rearing. How will that skill ever be helpful for any of these kids???
                                  That, according to Rupert, is a levade. And I can see how the kids would like it. But, um, I don't see how it's safe for a therapy horse.
                                  You hate that, don’t you? Do you like oysters? You have to acquire a taste for oysters and the deep distance.”
                                  -- George H. Morris on learning to love the deep distance

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I am wondering if the grey in the background of this picture is the same one pictured doing the "levade". They mentioned that he is swaybacked

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      wow.

                                      are you folks serious? this guy is trying to help kids and [edit]

                                      maybe you ought to go spend some time at an "all rounder" barn so you can see how the rest of the world works before you condemn this guy.
                                      Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 29, 2012, 04:02 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by mbm View Post
                                        wow.

                                        are you folks serious? this guy is trying to help kids and [edit]
                                        There are unfortunately a lot of people who do in fact engage in behavior which, [edit], is pretty ethically questionable under the guise of 'helping kids' - parents of children with problems can become quite desperate and it's not always all that hard to sell them on something. So "he's trying to help!" is not really that great a defense in the grand scheme of things.

                                        And assuming that he does legitimately believe that he's on to something helpful with autistic children and horses, it seems like it would be a much more responsible approach to take to follow the safety guidelines of one of the major therapeutic riding groups, including stuff like wearing helmets and using side walkers where appropriate and so on. It's not like someone sat down to make those rules and said "I know, I'll say all kids should wear helmets just because I want Troxel to make more money!"

                                        (I know there are sensation issues for some kids with autism - maybe that means that those kids can't ride, maybe there's some kind of adaptation that can be made to the helmet to change the texture/feel, etc. I'm sure there's stuff that can be tried. ETA: And part of that would be that ALL of the adults should be wearing helmets to set the example. It's harder to convince a kid to do something he doesn't want to do when he can say 'but they're not doing it!')
                                        Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 29, 2012, 04:03 PM.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X