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French School "Workshop!"

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  • ok, i have a question about the Ted video - how does he go from the walk/halt/leg yield/RB to baby piaffe? it is not shown and i cant get my brain to fill out the steps... IY can you fill in the blanks for me?

    Comment


    • Use of the rein technique (flexion/hh)/whip touches/hh...walk is forward, halt is hh, rein back folds the hindlegs diagonally (as in trot/piaffe), then touch with whip and hh (for me more clearly).

      To be higher (use vertical hh) that will fold the hind leg which in turn produces more thrust in the piaffe.
      I.D.E.A. yoda

      Comment


      • In the Ted vid there is alot of editing so I may also be missing something - however it seems that after having gone through several basic exercises, the handler - at @ 3:39 positions Ted at a halt. Then at @3:44 he backs him up (the hind legs are spread out kind of wide reminding me of a horse just trying to coordinate his reculer a little). Then at @3:53 he asks Ted to take a few steps of energetic walk, the he lifts his whip to the hind quarter and Ted begins his energetic steps toward the piaffe. At @ 4:03 it starts to become a little bit better piaffe.

        Personally I like this video of a young one working and starting piaffe. It is clear that Ted is a forward mover, that he looks relaxed and trusting of his handler. The handler is displaying tact. Overall it is a harmonious vid.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mbm View Post
          i am curious how you got him to take higher step?
          He has continued to offer higher steps in progression. He will lift the leg hold it for a moment then step forward/down. Its still not quite stretched as the videos/photos show but Ive only just now allowed the forward steps to come very slowly-and the steps are still small at this stage. Just working at slowly and deliberately--with clear aids/request/release/praise. Its still more of a bended knee movement--but as I said I have only just begun to allow a forward step. There is a lot of praise for the correct response and the sessions are very brief. He seems to do best just before dinner--and then dinner is the reward. He also seems to like this work--which is nice, very quick and clever.
          Redbud Ranch
          Check us out on FB

          Comment


          • Ok, I am mixed up. Are we talking about piaffe and higher steps?? Or another horse with spanish walk???

            For spanish walk you have to play with single reactions and where the horse reacts to a touch (lower or higher on back of leg) and sometimes front of leg (to get them to extend it). Always have it follow from the hind stepping to the foreleg lifting/extending. Lift the rein slightly as well, lifted higher they will lift/extend more. Remember it is spanish WALK, not pawing the air. It should take very few sessions to slowly add amplitude. But if the horse just lifts and extends they will park out. Keep the purity (to have a horse like Marduck).
            I.D.E.A. yoda

            Comment


            • i am asking about both.

              GP how exactly are you getting Jack to do the higher step? what aids are you giving?

              this is one of those things where i have a total brain block and i cant imagine how it is done

              same with the baby piaffe - i get the progression of the Ted video - but there is a gap in the video sequence - and that gap is exactly where my brain gap is too! i get all the exercises used, and i can reproduce them all.. however i dont see/grok how they will produce a trot step/baby piaffe?

              Comment


              • is there any video that shows how to teach spanish walk?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
                  Ok, I am mixed up. Are we talking about piaffe and higher steps?? Or another horse with spanish walk???

                  For spanish walk you have to play with single reactions and where the horse reacts to a touch (lower or higher on back of leg) and sometimes front of leg (to get them to extend it). Always have it follow from the hind stepping to the foreleg lifting/extending. Lift the rein slightly as well, lifted higher they will lift/extend more. Remember it is spanish WALK, not pawing the air. It should take very few sessions to slowly add amplitude. But if the horse just lifts and extends they will park out. Keep the purity (to have a horse like Marduck).
                  Sorry, MBM asked how we had gotten higher steps--and it is very much dealing with single reactions---we are just now adding forward but I did see the disconnect on the first attempt--second attempt brought the hind leg along. In Hand work is very much an Art--just like all of riding/training--and yes, a "Marduk" Spanish walk would be ideal--but we are just beginning this work, far from a finished product as the Ted Video mentions.

                  As Ideayoda mentions you have to play with the touches to find the best reaction spot--his seems just above the pastern--a light touch of the whip. You do have to be somewhat quick going back and forth to make a coordinated movement. He has just offered higer steps in progression. Last nights session was very good (considering its only just been introduced)---nice clear steps with some height but not so much reach---but again I think the forwards steps will allow for more extension/height in the leg.

                  There is a very brief description of teaching the Spanish walk in Anja Berans book if you have it.
                  Redbud Ranch
                  Check us out on FB

                  Comment


                  • Work one side (ie the near side) within the progression of the walk (after the horse offers a reaction at all). THEN change to the other side and do some reactions on that fore leg. One does not go back and forth (left/right) until one reaction is well developed. Reach is part of the walk purity (not just l/r) which can really foul the walk and why s.w. is often thought of as a negative.
                    I.D.E.A. yoda

                    Comment


                    • Lost track of which french thread 'flexions' were being discussed on, but here are some done by Branderup that you can actually see .

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzdAN...eature=related

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
                        Work one side (ie the near side) within the progression of the walk (after the horse offers a reaction at all). THEN change to the other side and do some reactions on that fore leg. One does not go back and forth (left/right) until one reaction is well developed. Reach is part of the walk purity (not just l/r) which can really foul the walk and why s.w. is often thought of as a negative.
                        Yeah this is how I started--just working one leg one side at a time and then switch legs/sides. He offers more which is how I got to alternating touches. Its understood about the walk purity-but he also must take a forward step to bring the hind along-rather than just offering a leg (which is where we started). The progression has been quick/straight forward and quite interesting. I finished off my ride today with him working just a couple of alternate steps---will see what happens tonight since this seems to be when he is happiest to offer more.
                        Last edited by goodpony; Oct. 29, 2012, 06:11 PM.
                        Redbud Ranch
                        Check us out on FB

                        Comment


                        • I posted this last night but apparently I was too late. Last night in our working session I was able to get something that is starting to look like a Spanish Walk--just a few steps but connected and straight. Its been great fun learning and Im amazed by how quickly he's grasped the idea and is offering more.
                          Redbud Ranch
                          Check us out on FB

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BaroquePony View Post
                            Lost track of which french thread 'flexions' were being discussed on, but here are some done by Branderup that you can actually see .

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzdAN...eature=related
                            Thanks BP!! and I'll add that I also refer to J. Froissards book with tons of photos on the flexions. Some one else posted it previously during the discussion on Flexions, and I'll post it again - Here it is online (in Google books for now): http://books.google.com/books?id=aaC...ed=0CDMQ6AEwAw
                            Page down to the glossary, then click on Flexions to go there faster.

                            I do some of them before each ride on my youngster ( just in a snaffle for now)and he relaxes and chews into them immediately - the rides are so much better.

                            Comment


                            • Those flexions are both lateral and longitudinal, and I believe they show the "indirect rein of opposition", where the inside rein effects the outside, or opposite ('opposition'), hind leg.

                              I have another video that shows more of the strict longitudinal flexions, but I have to go hunt for it. I'll be back.

                              ETA: I am discussing only the in-hand work at the very beginning of the video. My apology for forgetting to explain that.
                              Last edited by BaroquePony; Oct. 30, 2012, 12:47 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Those shown by BB are NOT flexions (at the atlas/axis) they are bending the neck at the root/withers. And it clearly shows what happens when that happens, the horse falls onto the outside shoulder. IF the horse were going straight ahead and was thusly flexed it would fall sideways. Imho not traditional by any school.

                                The purpose of lateral flexions (progressive ones) is to lead to longitudinal flexion over time. They cannot be mixed together.

                                But the worst part of such lateral bending of the neck is the horse learns to break at the third vertebrae/go btv. Don't care for it at all!
                                I.D.E.A. yoda

                                Comment


                                • ideayoda, fair enough (let me find the other video first), but I do use that when I am on certain horses. I am NOT saying it is classical, I do not know if it is, but I use it because it works on some horses in helping them understand without creating tension.

                                  ETA:

                                  It is however mentioned in U.S. Cavalry methods. I think of that as classical, but it may not actually be 'classical'. It is military riding from eons of practicing what works for training horses that will be galloped across fields and still come back into "the hand" and collect for tight manuvering.
                                  Last edited by BaroquePony; Oct. 30, 2012, 12:55 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • Abkauübungen nach Philippe Karl


                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFo92...feature=relmfu

                                    Don't understand a word of it.

                                    Comment


                                    • ideayoda, I think we are discussing different flexion exercises that are not particularly related.

                                      ETA: I forgot to ad that I was only discussing the very beginning of the video with the in-hand work/flexions only. My apology.

                                      Comment


                                      • ideayoda, I totally agree with you on Branderups flexions in the saddle. Overbent neck, complete loss of any energy that might have been generated from the hindquarters.

                                        Comment


                                        • (Imho it does not show an indirect rein either).
                                          I.D.E.A. yoda

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