• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

French School "Workshop!"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • goodpony, I had to go check which video I thought I remembered you and your pony from ... whew, it's that cute bay. I thought so, but I am getting too old for all this running around .

    He's real cute. I'm the fool who is retrainng Maxwell the Cob .

    Comment


    • the books i have found that were most helpful for on the ground/in hand/flexion work are as

      Classical Horsemanship for Our Time: From Basic Training to the Highest Levels of Dressage
      ^this book has flexions etc and is french

      Schooling Horses in Hand: A Means of Suppling & Collection

      Horse Training In-Hand: Long Lines, Long & Short Reins, Work on the Longe

      and of course the Phillipe Karl book - which unfortunately is ridiculously priced..... fwiw, i have good luck finding out of print books at local tack swaps etc... i have multiple copies of some of the classics that i give away when someone is looking - unfortunately i only have one copy of the PK book.

      GP you might also look into videos - do a search on youtube - while you may not be able to hear , just the visual will be helpful - or it always is for me at any rate.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mbm View Post
        the books i have found that were most helpful for on the ground/in hand/flexion work are as

        Classical Horsemanship for Our Time: From Basic Training to the Highest Levels of Dressage
        ^this book has flexions etc and is french

        I ordered this one--it was in my price range

        Schooling Horses in Hand: A Means of Suppling & Collection

        I was very curious about this one--wether it was good or not.

        Horse Training In-Hand: Long Lines, Long & Short Reins, Work on the Longe

        I was wondering about this one as from that back cover it said the author was a student of BB---wasnt sure about if that was the route I wanted to go but what do I know?!

        and of course the Phillipe Karl book - which unfortunately is ridiculously priced..... fwiw, i have good luck finding out of print books at local tack swaps etc... i have multiple copies of some of the classics that i give away when someone is looking - unfortunately i only have one copy of the PK book.

        I dreamed about this book last night-LOL! Im going to keep my eyes open for it--ya never know, right. The cheapest one being $75 bucks---but that is less than one would pay for most instruction/clinics at least this is what I tell myself

        GP you might also look into videos - do a search on youtube - while you may not be able to hear , just the visual will be helpful - or it always is for me at any rate.
        Visuals are always helpful--and I do look, but its gotten frustrating not to be able to hear what is said.

        I got curious so broke out my copy of Anja Berans book---and thought since today was technically ponies day off (but I normally go trail riding anyway) we'd fiddle with the Spanish walk. (I became interested after reading this bit from page 119)

        French equestrian art of the previous century includes some valuable gymnastic exercises such as the Spanish walk and trot, which German criticism at the time and also present day purists refer to as artificial gaits. Just a few days ago I saw a few steps of the Spanish walk when a young horse, which had just come in from the field was running loose in the arena, naturally very elevated and very expressive. This was my answer to those who describe such tremendous exersizes of this style of art as artificial. I do not consider it difficult to learn these two gaits. I consider them to be useful gymnastics for all horses without exception and to be valuable aid helping the horses to develop agility and vigor. In order to be of use to the horse they must be executed in good balance, the horse in good spirits, ie the Spanish walk---just as the simple walk -should be in even 4/4 rhythm and the Spanish trot in two time with perfectly coordinated diagonals, just like the simple trot. A multitude of problems can be solved by means of the Spanish walk providing it is done properly with the desired elevation . The Spanish walk for example is just the right kind of gymnastic for a horse that has its croup too high and whose hind legs are impeded by timid action of the forelegs. It is also suitable for a horse that does not collect properly due to incorrect training and thus has too much weight on the forehand . In this case the Spanish walk gives the forelegs more generous expression so that the horse gradually adjusts the incorrect carriage and continues to develop impeccably-----Nuno Oliviera
        It went surprisingly well---and we got our first Spanish baby steps. And it was very pleasant out on the trail working in hand
        Redbud Ranch
        Check us out on FB

        Comment


        • i got a lot out of all the books i listed..... they are a bit different in style, but each of them are quite useful.

          the book you ordered will help with flexions.... and is interesting re: theory.

          i think i might order Richard Hinrichs book next if i had to buy one....

          as for spanish walk.... i am one of those than thinks it is artificial - as i have not seen it where the walk is pure.... but i suppose it would be fun to play with - i personally wont teach my pony anything that i dont want to see offered over and over and over.... so no tricks for him! i learned that the hard way !

          eta: there must be a video for the Richard Hinrichs book

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3HesXQTgDM

          Comment


          • btw this is one of my fave in hand videos.... i am fascinated with how he takes a youngster and just thru in hand work and walking/halting he is able to produce the first steps of piaffe.... really interesting !

            Comment


            • Did you mean to post the Hinrichs video twice? Thank you for sharing it.

              Well, Im having fun with the Spanish walk! Though I agree that it seems part trick and part gymnastic but perhaps far more forgiving with more room for error then a novice like trying to teach Piaffe in hand. I have seen horses do a very similar move in the paddocks so its not entirely unnatural to them---but I have seen them do some incredible things left to their own natural play (especially the boys, not so much the girls---they play different). You don't have to remind me about teaching ponies stuff--learned that with the first one! But in the same vein there is also some merit to working on the stuff you want them to learn before you need it. Its a bit like playing with the Flying changes now and then--we play every so often when the canter is just right and he can do the changes easily--then we leave them alone till next time.

              I went out again this evening just before dinner and asked for a few more steps just to confirm---and got about twice the elevation in the steps as I was able to request this morning--very little effort involved there. I have not asked for much forward motion just starting with picking up his feet on cue with just enough room for him to step. I can see no real harm in teaching him to move his feet and reestablishing voice/familiarity with the whip at this point. I dont know how easily transferable it is to performing it under saddle---but I suspect there is less room for error with the SW once you are up there.

              I thought this video (shared by BP) which showed PK doing the Spanish Walk most impressive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k61NB...eature=related only small critisim would be perhaps more invisible aides-but Im not going there.
              Last edited by goodpony; Oct. 27, 2012, 10:39 PM.
              Redbud Ranch
              Check us out on FB

              Comment


              • I began our in-hand work in the barn almost immediately since Maxwell had, literally, no ground manners, at all.

                He did not know what the "leg" was in the saddle. What a surprise.

                So I began with my "knuckle" exercises, on the ground in the barn aisle. I use my knuckle as if it were a Prince of Wales spur. On the girth and behind the girth.

                I also had to desensitize him to the whip and the lounge whip.

                He had only been pulled through turns and booted forward and had absolutely no idea how to use his rear end to help carry himself ... or halt. He had no halt. At all. Or bend through the body. Only an overbent neck.

                He now bends through the body. He is very proud of how he picks the hind leg up and reaches under as he rotates his haunches, only stepping in front of the other leg by one hoofprint. We also work on the shoulder-in in the aisle.

                I do NOT feed this particular pony treats during training. I give him treats at other times, but not during schooling sessions. I do praise him though, and he knows what that means.

                If he is begging for treats, he will do a turn on the forehand in the aisle or a shoulder-in down the aisle. And he picks those hind legs up and puts them down very distinctly.

                Comment


                • The value, hidden to some, obvious to others, is the rein being attached to the foot. It is very evident in the PK video that goodpony posted. As to invisible aids, I see the beauty in PKs understanding of the concept of rein directing the foot in that video.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by re-runs View Post
                    The value, hidden to some, obvious to others, is the rein being attached to the foot. It is very evident in the PK video that goodpony posted. As to invisible aids, I see the beauty in PKs understanding of the concept of rein directing the foot in that video.
                    I thought it was the riders seat/leg attached to the hind leg rather than the rein. So interesting to read an alternate view.
                    Redbud Ranch
                    Check us out on FB

                    Comment


                    • The seat can attach to the hindleg, frontleg. The riders leg can attach to the horses front leg, hindleg. The rein also attaches to the hindleg as well as the frontleg.

                      An understanding of this can be grasped with the SRS`s practice of stirrup stepping. I have to say, the only person who teaches this in detail is Karl Mikolka. I cannot tell you what a difference it made in my communication and understanding when I started to "get" this. Horses instantly understand this and play along and horses that once rushed or were distracted begin to "wait" for and tune in to the rider. It`s not only fun but, as Ray Hunt would say, "The horses body becomes my body." More than just; VERY effective,.......it brings harmony and understanding between horse and rider to a new level.


                      SRS = Gueriniere

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by re-runs View Post
                        The seat can attach to the hindleg, frontleg. The riders leg can attach to the horses front leg, hindleg. The rein also attaches to the hindleg as well as the frontleg.

                        An understanding of this can be grasped with the SRS`s practice of stirrup stepping. I have to say, the only person who teaches this in detail is Karl Mikolka. I cannot tell you what a difference it made in my communication and understanding when I started to "get" this. Horses instantly understand this and play along and horses that once rushed or were distracted begin to "wait" for and tune in to the rider. It`s not only fun but, as Ray Hunt would say, "The horses body becomes my body." More than just; VERY effective,.......it brings harmony and understanding between horse and rider to a new level.


                        SRS = Gueriniere
                        It was the 'waiting' I noticed mostly and even in a small way fiddling with the Spanish walk in hand (the connections) made perfect sense to me--I was amazed how quickly my guy could grasp and respond correctly to my 'aids' in just two short sessions. I think its worth exploring for the purpose of truly 'understanding' the mechanics of the walk.
                        Redbud Ranch
                        Check us out on FB

                        Comment


                        • Here is another video: http://youtu.be/lpCvQBALBX0
                          Redbud Ranch
                          Check us out on FB

                          Comment


                          • Marduk is amazing, and so regular...and in all gaits interesting.
                            I.D.E.A. yoda

                            Comment


                            • There is something called the "hand-hip" connection. It has always been my understanding that the rider must learn that first, before they will begin to understand how to control the shoulder from the seat.

                              Comment


                              • I know its really stupid---but Im so excited--in just a couple of sessions we took our first higher-marchy-steps which included some forward. He gets it....I thought to try it out under saddle (he's not ready) but he did try really hard to lift his shoulders and extend the neck/balance and he did stay straight (he's not quite making the connection to stretch the leg) but he did try to do something--which sometimes is better than nothing. I plan to keep working with him and see what happens---we are not exactly experts, but so far the exercise is proving to be remarkably simple to teach.
                                Redbud Ranch
                                Check us out on FB

                                Comment


                                • GP this is the vid i was trying to post yesterday - Ted, in hand... is it working for you now?

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_qdm...eature=related

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by mbm View Post
                                    GP this is the vid i was trying to post yesterday - Ted, in hand... is it working for you now?

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_qdm...eature=related
                                    He's making it look too easy I used to do a lot more In Hand work than I do now (have done all that is shown but the "P" work.) I have a young filly that needs to start doing this type of thing--she is not ready for a rider imo but would benefit from the in hand work.
                                    Redbud Ranch
                                    Check us out on FB

                                    Comment


                                    • As quiet as that is, imho the horse should be asked to take hh, stay more up and open. Two things would change if that were the case. The piaffe would be fuller, and the rein back would not be wide behind, so the hindleg joints would fold more in both. Working a horse in hand is an art form, something to always be improved by looking at the horse globally and acting on the details.
                                      I.D.E.A. yoda

                                      Comment


                                      • The Ted video is fascinating to me because he is able to use walk/halt/RB to create piaffe. i watch it over and over...

                                        i wish i had someone to learn in hand work from - i really do think it is cool!

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by goodpony View Post
                                          I know its really stupid---but Im so excited--in just a couple of sessions we took our first higher-marchy-steps which included some forward. He gets it....I thought to try it out under saddle (he's not ready) but he did try really hard to lift his shoulders and extend the neck/balance and he did stay straight (he's not quite making the connection to stretch the leg) but he did try to do something--which sometimes is better than nothing. I plan to keep working with him and see what happens---we are not exactly experts, but so far the exercise is proving to be remarkably simple to teach.
                                          i am curious how you got him to take higher step?

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X