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I'm prepared for dressage people to flame me on this but..

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  • I'm prepared for dressage people to flame me on this but..

    But uhm... since when does an extended trot look like a park trot from a saddleseat class? And shouldn't their hind end be able to keep up with the front?

    *ducks*

    ps..yup, just watched the olympics, and all that being said, everyone did really well though the scores seemed a little wonky but that's my preference.
    Blog:http://thwartedequestrian.tumblr.com

  • #2
    I AGREE! "modern" dressage seems to not care if the haunch becomes disengaged as long as those front ends are so expressive.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey, even in saddle seat the hind end/hocks are supposed to be engaged. Action is not supposed to just be "all up front"

      Not that I've seen this any time in the past 20 yrs.

      They are also supposed to do a flat walk, be collected....

      I digress.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by Hippolyta View Post
        Hey, even in saddle seat the hind end/hocks are supposed to be engaged. Action is not supposed to just be "all up front"

        Not that I've seen this any time in the past 20 yrs.

        They are also supposed to do a flat walk, be collected....

        I digress.
        I agree, this bothers me about saddle seat too (among other things that bother me about this discipline)
        Blog:http://thwartedequestrian.tumblr.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Specific examples? I'd like to go back and watch.

          Totilas was the worst offender in this respect (his stardom derived from his phenomenal collection), but I felt overall a much greater number of the extended trots were correct this time round. I saw a lot more lenthening of frames instead of just leg movement, with a few exceptions.

          Part of the issue comes from improvements in breeding that have created ridiculously free shoulders... this is where the mobility in the front legs comes from, but it certainly does look different to what we were seeing 15-20 years ago.
          Proud COTH lurker since 2001.

          Comment


          • #6
            Compared to years past, this competition was a great improvement. Even Gal rode IFV for an entire test.
            Two riders towards the end turned this into another negative rant. I'm choosing to focus on all the positive improvements I saw, rather than harping on two riders that clearly don't get it.
            www.destinationconsensusequus.com
            chaque pas est fait ensemble

            Comment


            • #7
              Overall, I think many people are "getting it" and some of the horrid extremely stressed looking horses are beginning to take a back seat.

              So, being knowledgable and offering persistent, educated opinions does make a difference!!

              Comment


              • #8
                I remember a time of being obsessed with a great extended trot. I think partially because it is the first big movement one experiences in their journey of dressage, where you can be awed by the power you are harnessing.

                My pet peeve are draggy hind ends, but I also think there have always been a fair share of toe draggers, hind legs trailing in the past, but the freedom of the shoulders/ front end makes it more of a discrepancy now. I think Toto would no longer be a fertile stallion if his hind matched the front in extensions, but my awe of his athleticism lies in his ability for Pi-Pa. We all might have horses whose hind legs are more parallel/equal in extended trot, but probably none of us have a horse with the phenomenal power it takes to passage like that with such ease. Now I hardly look at a prospect for its extensions, but rather a high quality canter and ingredients for the collected work. Not that a correct extension is not important, but is still a much smaller part of the greater whole. I think I'd even place a gorgeous floaty half pass over the extended trot.

                Valegro is in my mind the "perfect" dressage horse and he is still young! And I think his phenomenal hind end is what is making him a record breaker. Also, I don't think we have ever had a period of time where the top twenty to thirty dressage horses have put in such high quality of tests as in this Olympics. Kudos to the riders and breeders although wish Toto could have been there with Gal...

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree, and said the same to my mother when she and I were watching the Olympic dressage. It's shocking to see those "big trot" front ends, then look at the back end and see NO overtrack -- but just barely tracking up :/
                  Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
                  http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
                  https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Lost_at_C View Post
                    Specific examples? I'd like to go back and watch.

                    Totilas was the worst offender in this respect (his stardom derived from his phenomenal collection), but I felt overall a much greater number of the extended trots were correct this time round. I saw a lot more lenthening of frames instead of just leg movement, with a few exceptions.

                    Part of the issue comes from improvements in breeding that have created ridiculously free shoulders... this is where the mobility in the front legs comes from, but it certainly does look different to what we were seeing 15-20 years ago.
                    Honestly I couldn't give you very specific examples as I don't remember most of the horses or riders names, but from what I saw it was nearly 50/50 with extended trots that just didn't look right. There just doesn't seem to be any actual impulsion on the hind end on some of these horses, it's like they trained the front and forgot the back.

                    I'll never forget when I went to a random dressage show in Scottsdale and saw some random chesnut gelding do the most beautiful extended trot I've ever seen. That horse floated about the ground, had beautiful extension and never once looked like a big lick walking horse, haha.
                    Blog:http://thwartedequestrian.tumblr.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thats ok, I was watching a very famous horse a few years back doing a running walk and not a trot, and to say his scores were very good would be an understatement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Snore.

                        Why doesnt the saddle seat crowd ride it more like this then... It more pleasing and the horses dont look like their legs are being trotted off that way.
                        ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                        http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I watched some of the Dressage on the Olympic playback, and almost every horse reminded me of some Saddlebred, Morgan, or Morgan/STB cross that I've known. One of them would have made a really cute ASB Country Pleasure horse. She had hocks to go with her front end.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DancingFoalFarms View Post
                            I agree, and said the same to my mother when she and I were watching the Olympic dressage. It's shocking to see those "big trot" front ends, then look at the back end and see NO overtrack -- but just barely tracking up :/
                            Since when is the trot supposed to have overtrack?
                            Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is it possible that the trot we are seeing is the natural progression resulting from new standards in breeding and higher levels of training rather than some flaw? I would have thought that if the trots were fundamentally flawed it would have carried over to the collected trots as well.
                              Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I wonder if they will start putting chains on dressage horses now?

                                I know, meow, but it isn't correct. Never was.

                                And the incredibly "free" shoulder? Ugh!
                                “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
                                ? Albert Einstein

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by CHT View Post
                                  Since when is the trot supposed to have overtrack?
                                  It's always been like that. Standard teaching in judge's seminars. Collected trot step into the track of the foot ahead. An extended trot can land 12-24 inches ahead. A horse that doesn't overtrack in the extended trot should not get a good score for it.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by horsefaerie View Post
                                    I wonder if they will start putting chains on dressage horses now?

                                    I know, meow, but it isn't correct. Never was.
                                    They already have. Weighted bell boots, too.

                                    I believe Hilary Clayton even did a study about it.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I have raving about this for several years. Watch some of the German sales videos from the inspections. Gawd. Horrible. I thought that Emma Kanerva's ride was beautiful with 3 solid gaits. Very beautiful.
                                      “If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?”
                                      ? Rumi






                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by thwartedequestrian View Post
                                        I'll never forget when I went to a random dressage show in Scottsdale and saw some random chesnut gelding do the most beautiful extended trot I've ever seen. That horse floated about the ground, had beautiful extension and never once looked like a big lick walking horse, haha.
                                        I wonder if that is the same horse I saw a few years ago? It had been showing out on the east coast prior to the move to Scottsdale, and had a somewhat lateral walk, but its extended trot was truly to die for. I remember sitting in awe as I watched it.

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