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What the Hoi Polloi think of dressage and Ann Romney

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  • #41
    Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
    Bikarb, I'm afraid I don't understand. You say you are taxed 50% on your profits. Profit would be, simplistically, what is left over after all of your expenses. How does that affect whether your company is able to stay in business or cause it to lay off workers? I assume you and your family manage to pay yourselves a decent salary. We're talking PROFITS, not income.

    As far as the article...thanks to the internet and cutbacks at print media operations...that's what we get. Poor reporting, poor research, and opinion pieces parading as reporting. It's the dumbing down of America. Most people don't bother to fact check, rumors are repeated as fact. Politicians lie. So much for U.S. exceptionalism.
    Yes anyone who makes a profit should give 1/2 of it to the government because THEY sure know where to spend it these days

    Bringing up what a company pays themselves shows your hand IMO. They provide jobs, and a service, the rest is really none of your business if it is legal.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • #42
      Let me see, folks are mad because the Romneys are wealthy, have more than one child and oh yeah, Anne is able to own, ride, compete and support others in dressage. Do you look at Bruce and Patty Springstein with the same distain?

      Kudos for AR for being able to live her life in spite of her illness. And let's get real, we would all love to have her options less the illness.
      "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
      Courtesy my cousin Tim

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Blkarab View Post
        No bubble is burst here. I know first-hand how corporate taxation works. I'm an executive in a family oil and gas company.

        Here is how taxation and so called "environmental expense" works.

        We are taxed at over 50% of profit for state and federal taxes. If we have one signature out of place on an EPA document with no EPA violation, it's a $5000 fine. We have regulations from the BLM, MMS, and numerous other government agencies that want their cut, their fee, etc, etc. or some other small "tax" to add to their pot. Our company produces jobs for 17 field employees and 7 office staff...I process over 700 invoices a month...which all equate to jobs for mostly Mom and Pop companies that wouldn't be able to survive if we didn't provide them work. Those individuals pay taxes to their school districts, counties, etc. They spend their money in local restaurants, shops and grocery stores...it all trickles down into the economy.

        Yes, the wealthy need to make contributions...because the taxes for most businesses would be outrageous. Industries are hit constantly with new regulations that while not considered taxes, still go into the government pot. If MOST corporations didn't have a way to have a tax break...they would have to either close up shop or lay off workers.

        If you want to blame someone...blame the government for their excessive waste.

        I'm sorry, but I'm tired of watching people work hard to earn their money at all levels, only to have the government take more of it away to give to those "less fortunate". When a lot of those "less fortunate" people could go out and get a job, but won't because they make more money off of welfare or unemployment...so there is no incentive. I'm tired of hearing about corporations who are supplying real jobs be demonized and called evil because they are striving to make a profit.

        How about this...since we are all so priviledged to have horses and ride dressage...why don't we give away our animals to someone else who desires them...that's what it is coming down to. Before long, it's not just the mega-wealthy that are going to be penalized.
        See, the trouble with you Blkarab is that you are playing by the rules and behaving in an ethical fashion. How unAmerican of you!!! When I was talking about the harm to humans and the environment I was referring to the mega corporations like Exxon (remember those guys who still have NOT paid up on the Valdez disaster!) and BP (employees killed, massive pollution of water and shoreline, yet still having record breaking profits). I absolutely do not begrudge people making lots of money if they have come by it honestly and have not harmed others in the process. But, that's a rarity.

        Regarding the megawealthy being penalized, I don't know where you get that idea. Our tax laws protect the exceedingly rich quite nicely.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
          Yes anyone who makes a profit should give 1/2 of it to the government because THEY sure know where to spend it these days

          Bringing up what a company pays themselves shows your hand IMO. They provide jobs, and a service, the rest is really none of your business if it is legal.
          Having owned a business and having made sure I and the other owners were paid quite an adequate salary and pension benefits along with a very nice key man insurance/conversion to pension plan, I think I'm qualified to say that I would assume you and your family receive adequate compensation. My point was only that your taxes are based on the profit, not your gross income. Face it, the 99% are the job creators. They buy what you (and I) sell/sold. Without them, we have nothing.

          Comment


          • #45
            Personally, I think political wives should be off the table for controversy and ridicule. But, unfortunately, both the left and the right seem to think it's open season on spouse and families.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by fooler View Post
              Let me see, folks are mad because the Romneys are wealthy, have more than one child and oh yeah, Anne is able to own, ride, compete and support others in dressage. Do you look at Bruce and Patty Springstein with the same distain?
              Or the Sellecks, or the Bloombergs, or the Spielbergs, or Lyle Lovett, etc.
              The list is endless.

              One of the best comments following the article asked if the LA Times was going to publish the story on the Spielberg's lawsuit about their dressage horse from a few years ago. That lawsuit story is far more entertaining than AR's (and I'm a fan of AR).

              Comment


              • #47
                The article is a bit obnoxious in it's choice of words. I am particularly annoyed by fussy. It implies manicured hands and clean breeches. Pshaw.

                It has some good aspects, which could have been better explored, about how technically difficult dressage is and good as physical therapy.

                I'm a bit annoyed with all that help she was able to jump to her gold medal because of her money, when I had to scrimp, save, and do it the hard way over many, many years, but good for her. Good advertisement for MS therapy.

                Pretty annoyed that the money of the rich is said to support the sport. As others said, the support is from the BOTTOM of the pyramid, not the top. As part of the bottom of the pyramid, I'm pretty annoyed I'm not getting credit. It's kind of like the 1% drive the economy as "job creators." FABULOUS speech on this--applies to horses and the economy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBx2Y5HhplI

                Interesting people brought up Jackie Kennedy as an elite horse person. I don't think Anne Romney is being picked on here, but just remember that back when Jackie was alive, the top tax bracket the Kennedy's were paying was, what? I don't think 90%, but at least 70%, so the Kennedys were paying 70% of their profit in taxes, not the 12% the Romneys are.
                Last edited by Beentheredonethat; May. 22, 2012, 11:01 PM.

                Comment


                • #48
                  It would have been a brilliant article on MS and how Mrs Romney benefited from dressage. I'd have read it. When I said we are grateful for the wealthy types its because they have the farms and facilities that host our shows (at least where I am), they own the schoolmasters at these facilities where people like me actually get lessons on dressage horses from BNTs, they can sponsor riders, prizes, and events, etc. I meant no offense to the bread and butter riders.

                  Paula
                  He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                    They basically looked up that horses cost a lot and Ann Romney does it, therefore it's something evil rich people do.
                    Well, to be fair, it IS something evil rich people do.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      ...

                      What a load of hooey.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
                        Yes anyone who makes a profit should give 1/2 of it to the government because THEY sure know where to spend it these days

                        Bringing up what a company pays themselves shows your hand IMO. They provide jobs, and a service, the rest is really none of your business if it is legal.
                        ... And that's what all the hubbub is about. Romney made his own money. A hell of a lot of it. No one would care about his DQ wife except that he was running on a "we can relate to you post-2008 Crash working stiffs" platform. And by the same token, no one has to care if Bruce Springsteen or Michael Bloomberg are or are not like the rest of us. They didn't claim to be aren't ask you to believe that they are.

                        So what corporations get to do with their money "so long as it is legal" is a big, big issue one ought to consider in a presidential election.

                        And to those of you working for a family-owned firm that pays you all well, and who also think that welfare folks have it easy and therefore don't work, I'll ask you if you have ever lived on welfare. It doesn't look like a good time to me. Anyone who would lose their benefits in order to get a comparably-paying job has rationality on their side, I'm afraid. But then you financial wizards would know this as all decisions a company makes are costed out as well.
                        The armchair saddler
                        Politically Pro-Cat

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          LA Times article

                          It's tough to believe this article appeared on the front page of the LA Times. Does the world not have enough important things going on to write about?

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            BTW, "hoi polloi" is Greek and literally means "the many" (and implies the unwashed masses), so you should never put "the" in front of it.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #54
                              Maybe ...

                              http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/183475.html


                              "There are two linguistic points of interest concerning hoi polloi. The first is whether or not to precede it with 'the'. Some argue that, since 'hoi' means 'the' in Greek, then 'the hoi polloi' translates as 'the the many', so we should omit the article and just say 'hoi polloi'. Others argue that this is merely pedantic, not to say inconsistent with other uses of articles inherited from others languages; for example, alchemist, which comes from the Arabic, where al means the - and yet no one complains that the alchemist is incorrect. Whatever your views on that, it's a fact that 'the hoi polloi' is so widely used (not least by Dryden, as we see above) that whatever grammarians say about it won't alter its general usage." (continues...)


                              My usage is consistent with the terms's application in English (see John Dryden's "Essay of Dramatic Poesy", Lord Byron's personal writings, James Fennimore Cooper's "Gleanings in Europe", and W.S. Gilbert's "Iolanthe" as well as Merriam-Webster's definition http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hoi%20polloi)

                              But if I am ever asked to speak at a public funeral for ancient Greek war dead in the Pelopennese, you are right suzy, I should probably clean up my usage and say "οἱ πολλοί" (pronounced "ee po-LEE" in modern Greek)
                              See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by nhwr View Post
                                My usage is consistent with the terms's application in English (see John Dryden's "Essay of Dramatic Poesy", Lord Byron's personal writings, James Fennimore Cooper's "Gleanings in Europe", and W.S. Gilbert's "Iolanthe" as well as Merriam-Webster's definition http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hoi%20polloi)
                                O, Magua!

                                2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

                                A helmet saved my life.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                  ... And that's what all the hubbub is about. Romney made his own money. A hell of a lot of it. No one would care about his DQ wife except that he was running on a "we can relate to you post-2008 Crash working stiffs" platform. And by the same token, no one has to care if Bruce Springsteen or Michael Bloomberg are or are not like the rest of us. They didn't claim to be aren't ask you to believe that they are.

                                  So what corporations get to do with their money "so long as it is legal" is a big, big issue one ought to consider in a presidential election.

                                  And to those of you working for a family-owned firm that pays you all well, and who also think that welfare folks have it easy and therefore don't work, I'll ask you if you have ever lived on welfare. It doesn't look like a good time to me. Anyone who would lose their benefits in order to get a comparably-paying job has rationality on their side, I'm afraid. But then you financial wizards would know this as all decisions a company makes are costed out as well.
                                  But Bruce Springsteen does present himself as a blue-collar working stiff who "we can relate to you pre- and post-2008 Crash working stiffs". So for some reason people are ok with his wealth but are offended by Romney's.

                                  I worked in my parents restaurants for years, doing every job that anyone else didn't want to do, for years and was paid very poorly - because I was family. I know others in family owned businesses who limit their own salary in order to pour profits back into the business. Not all business owners are wonderful nor pure evil.

                                  Finally - the history of anyone running for President should be open for review and discussion.
                                  "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
                                  Courtesy my cousin Tim

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by nhwr View Post
                                    http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/183475.html

                                    But if I am ever asked to speak at a public funeral for ancient Greek war dead in the Pelopennese, you are right suzy, I should probably clean up my usage and say "ïἱ ðïëëïß" (pronounced "ee po-LEE" in modern Greek)
                                    Yes, you should definintely "clean up" your act as I am sure you will have so many occasions to speak at those public funerals.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by fooler View Post
                                      But Bruce Springsteen does present himself as a blue-collar working stiff who "we can relate to you pre- and post-2008 Crash working stiffs". So for some reason people are ok with his wealth but are offended by Romney's.

                                      I worked in my parents restaurants for years, doing every job that anyone else didn't want to do, for years and was paid very poorly - because I was family. I know others in family owned businesses who limit their own salary in order to pour profits back into the business. Not all business owners are wonderful nor pure evil.

                                      Finally - the history of anyone running for President should be open for review and discussion.
                                      Springsteen certainly did present himself as representing working people-- notably Labor. And he made a lot of money doing it. But the man isn't running for President now. I don't know whether Springsteen would now describe himself as "average." IMO, it would be dishonest of him to do so. But the point is that even if he does present himself that way, the stakes are really, really low. I care far less that a musician is fooling himself and the public than someone who wants to run the country.

                                      And while I appreciate your having been paid poorly while working in a family restaurant, that's very, very different than being on your own and on welfare. See you had connection to capital, albeit wealth you didn't control and might have to wait for. That's not true for people who are poor and perhaps have been poor for generations. It feels different. It's materially different when you, say, have a health crisis or want to send your kid to college.

                                      Truly, if people would stop trying to present themselves as average (1) and gain some empathy for those who have it worse (2) this whole conversation would change. There is nothing average about the history of a man (or woman) who got to the point that he's running for Prez. That much seems patently obvious. So take the hard-to-defend claim off the table, eh?
                                      The armchair saddler
                                      Politically Pro-Cat

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        FYI
                                        Romney has an estimated $8 million dollars in the Caymans being untaxed by the U.S.

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #60
                                          mvp

                                          You spend too much time reading the Huffington Post. They and the media in general have made several serious attempts to show that Romney and his family is out of touch with the working class, much like the LA Times does with this article.

                                          I don't think Romney has ever tried to pretend that he comes from ordinary circumstances, though.
                                          See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                                          Comment

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