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Who reads German? Klaus Martin Rath on Rolkur and Totilas

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  • #41
    On the other hand, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

    How many people would know Matthias Rath from Adam if it weren't for Edward Gal and Totilas?

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by LarkspurCO View Post
      How many people would know Matthias Rath from Adam if it weren't for Edward Gal and Totilas?
      Anybody who follows European dressage competitions.

      Comment


      • #43
        Except now Rath is known as 'the other rider' by the Gal/Toto fans and unless he performs some sort of classical miracle on this horse, he will always be frowned upon by the masses. I personally would not want THAT kind of publicity. I feel for Rath, I really do.
        You see a mouse-trap. I see free cheeze and a challenge

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Eventer13 View Post
          Not a fan of RK, but honestly that video was far, far from being abusive. I thought it was going to be 10min of nose to chest, and he maybe had the horse in a deep/rollkur-ish position for 2 or 3 thirty second intervals. Not exactly causing the horse permanent damage there.
          Yep.

          And really, the horse was bringing his nose way in to some extent of his own volition like "oh, this is my comfortable, trained position to get my head on straight" rather than any kind of overly forceful disaster.

          I've seen UGLY riding in the warmup. While I'd prefer everything be sunshine and daisies and no horse ever go deep in warmup to increase control - this riding just didn't bother me so much. Yes, I'd love to see Totilas get long and low as a stretch toward the end of a warmup and don't think I ever have, but whatever, I'd get injured if I were the one trying to ride him there!
          If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
          -meupatdoes

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          • #45
            Originally posted by LarkspurCO View Post
            How many people would know Matthias Rath from Adam if it weren't for Edward Gal and Totilas?
            Well I knew who he was because I loved Sterntaler and the way he rode that rather difficult horse. (Got his autograph on a cap at WEG!) I think he was better known in Europe than here pre-Toto.

            But yeah, my heart sank when I heard he was taking the ride. No question it was no-win for him in terms of PR. OTOH, if all you want to do in life is please everyone, good luck with that. Over the past year I've come to admire his grace under pressure. And frankly the warm-up video posted here as "abusive" just makes me admire him all the more. He is a lovely quiet rider getting to know his horse and trying to get the best out of him in the midst of a public sh*t-storm.
            Ring the bells that still can ring
            Forget your perfect offering
            There is a crack in everything
            That's how the light gets in.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by netg View Post
              Yep.

              And really, the horse was bringing his nose way in to some extent of his own volition like "oh, this is my comfortable, trained position to get my head on straight" rather than any kind of overly forceful disaster.

              I've seen UGLY riding in the warmup. While I'd prefer everything be sunshine and daisies and no horse ever go deep in warmup to increase control - this riding just didn't bother me so much. Yes, I'd love to see Totilas get long and low as a stretch toward the end of a warmup and don't think I ever have, but whatever, I'd get injured if I were the one trying to ride him there!
              so so so agree! i was getting spanked on FB by stating the above! i can NOT believe folks are up in arms about what is in that video! it really really weakens their position to be clamoring about it!

              my guess is that many of the folks clamoring have never ridden or trained a difficult horse (nor trained properly up the levels for that matter) and or if they have they are clamoring for a financial reason (aka their clients clamor so they need to to be one of the "approved" trainers) or it is a media publication that base is the anti crowd etc.

              in other words: i believe very few good trainers or riders would complain about that video very loudly. It isnt how i would ride - but i sure am not going to shout about it.....

              i think i am with the german FN on this... it isnt classical riding.... but it is not abuse in this instance.

              Comment


              • #47
                As for Rath - I think he is going to surprise everyone. the most recent rides have been so much improved over the earlier rides --- but it takes time to learn a new horse and for a relationship to form.

                My ever optimistic POV is that now that they went "there” and found how it works, they will quietly behind the scenes begin to work the horse more correctly. We may or may not see it before the Olympics, but my guess is that German pride will not let this be and that they will train Totlis in the German system. Of course this is assuming Totilas plays along

                And I will say one thing: Totilas's body looks so much better than when he was being ridden by Gal. I *hated* how Totilas looked under Gal - except for the warm-ups where T was allowed to be loose and flexible.

                So I have hope

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by alicen View Post
                  Anybody who follows European dressage competitions.
                  I guess the better question to have asked is how many more people now know who Matthias Rath is because of Totilas. Plenty, I'm sure.

                  Frankly, he has had some great opportunities for positive PR with Totilas -- some nice photo spreads, the video with the little girl, interviews, etc. He has shown himself with poise and class under pressure, considering all of the attention (negative, positive, or otherwise). He has made a very good impression on me.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Larkspur...I agree. I saw him ride at WEG and loved his ride. He has handled all the pressure quite well for someone so young. He's only in his 20's. I couldn't imagine having to handle this kind of pressure at his age.

                    The last couple of videos with Rath and Toto show a new sense of calm between the pair. Their relationship is just getting started...and it takes a lot of time to get to know a new horse, let alone one so talented that has 2 different jobs...breeding and showing. That's a lot to handle for both the horse and the rider.

                    I'm anxious to see how this pair develops over the next couple of years. Hopefully, the hype will die down after the Olympics.
                    Unashamed Member of the Dressage Arab Clique
                    CRAYOLA POSSE= Thistle

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                      Looks like a video made by some with an axe to grind for their five minutes of glory.

                      Put them on that horse right there and lets see what they could do.
                      I do think the previous rider made the horse look easy, this one may be a bit overmounted.

                      If that is rollkur and so objectionable, pfff to all those that want to use that for their agendas.
                      Better go tilt at other windmills, I say.
                      An axe to grind?

                      Sure, because anyone who watches that video and notices the curb is at **90 degrees** for almost the whole thing clearly has no idea of how to ride, they must just be commenting because they have an axe to grind.

                      Note that I actually think stretching the horse periodically can have benefits, however any therapeutic value achieved through stretching is going to be nixed if you're achieving it by torquing on your curb rein like that.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        If that's what all the fuss is about, that's a tempest in a tea kettle.
                        Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                        EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Spectrum View Post
                          An axe to grind?

                          Sure, because anyone who watches that video and notices the curb is at **90 degrees** for almost the whole thing clearly has no idea of how to ride, they must just be commenting because they have an axe to grind.

                          Note that I actually think stretching the horse periodically can have benefits, however any therapeutic value achieved through stretching is going to be nixed if you're achieving it by torquing on your curb rein like that.
                          Honestly, based on how the horse reacted I'd be more likely to see it and think "gee, his curb chain must be very loose."
                          If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                          -meupatdoes

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by netg View Post
                            Honestly, based on how the horse reacted I'd be more likely to see it and think "gee, his curb chain must be very loose."
                            And you think, these very experienced horse people ride with a loose curb chain??? interesting thought....
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                            • #54
                              If the curb chain were not on the loose side, the shank could not come that far back. A very tight curb chain will cause the shanks to hardly move at all. Just because the shanks are or are not rotated does not mean someone is or is not pulling hard on them. The tightness of the curb chain is generally decided by how the horse responds to the mechanics of the curb bit.

                              ...so, not to speak for netg, but I will say that yes, very experienced horse people do ride with loose curb chains when called for.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                also, interestingly enough, I've noticed that a lot of riders using rollkur or rollkur-like techniques tend to adjust their curb chains looser. IME, the looser curb chain will encourage the horse to lower it's head, so this is probably not a coincidence.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Matthias Rath training Totilas at home

                                  Here a short video clip of the way Matthias is training Totilas at home :

                                  http://www.topdressage.tv/phpBB3/vie...p?f=190&t=5071

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by inspired View Post
                                    If the curb chain were not on the loose side, the shank could not come that far back. A very tight curb chain will cause the shanks to hardly move at all. Just because the shanks are or are not rotated does not mean someone is or is not pulling hard on them. The tightness of the curb chain is generally decided by how the horse responds to the mechanics of the curb bit.

                                    ...so, not to speak for netg, but I will say that yes, very experienced horse people do ride with loose curb chains when called for.
                                    In this case, feel free to speak for me.


                                    How one wants to define "called for" varies, but this horse certainly is giving no indication of the discomfort you'd think he'd be feeling if the reins were pulled as hard as I tend to think I'd be pulling to get the shank at that angle if I were the one adjusting the chain.
                                    If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                                    -meupatdoes

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      I think this is a very tricky thing to talk about... In my Days of higher Dressage in a professional Stable, I saw many different bits. Also the lenghts of the shanks are very different...
                                      I learned at these days, a curb-chain has to be adjusted in a way to allow the shanks an angle of 45 degrees from the line of the mouth. Not more and not less... So either to loose or to tight was wrong...
                                      So if I listen to you this has changed now....
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                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by LanceBehind View Post
                                        Here a short video clip of the way Matthias is training Totilas at home :

                                        http://www.topdressage.tv/phpBB3/vie...p?f=190&t=5071
                                        I don't think this is that bad. It looks more like he is trying to get the horse to stretch. He doesn't have tight reins and also is not "cramping" his head in. It is loosely held in that deeper position.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Manni01 View Post
                                          I think this is a very tricky thing to talk about... In my Days of higher Dressage in a professional Stable, I saw many different bits. Also the lenghts of the shanks are very different...
                                          I learned at these days, a curb-chain has to be adjusted in a way to allow the shanks an angle of 45 degrees from the line of the mouth. Not more and not less... So either to loose or to tight was wrong...
                                          So if I listen to you this has changed now....
                                          Don't listen. Look at photos and videos. You can see chains are adjusted various ways, regardless of what is correct.
                                          If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                                          -meupatdoes

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