• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Has anyone read these books?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Has anyone read these books?

    Hi all,

    I'm a h/j rider, and I've just started working with a woman and her young TB/Welsh cross pony. I'm excited to get this young gelding started off in the right direction. He's 2, and recently broke. I see the best way to begin any young horse's training is with some basic dressage fundamentals and lots of ground work.
    I've been looking into some books and these are the 2 that I'm having a hard time deciding between. Has anyone read these? Would you pick one over the other, and why?

    The Elements of Dressage: A Guide to Training the Young Horse by Kurd Albrecht von Ziegner

    Right from the Start: Create a Sane, Soft, Well-Balanced Horse - By Michael Schaffer


    Thank you!

  • #2
    For SURe the first one (the training tree is the same as the pyramid), he is a great trainer and the book is well organized. The other might be Zettl's book as well.
    I.D.E.A. yoda

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thank you for the recommendations. Is this the book you're referring to?

      http://www.amazon.com/Dressage-Harmo...2209186&sr=1-1

      Comment


      • #4
        Go for KA Von Ziegner's book. I have both books and have read both and Von Ziegner's book is much better and more correct, plus he has actually trained many top performing horses and I can't really say the same for Mike Schaffer.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thank you for the reply. I ended up purchasing Walter Zettl's book "Dressage in Harmony: From Basic to Grand Prix (The Masters of Horsemanship Series, Bk. 4)"
          http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/093...00_i00_details

          Comment


          • #6
            I just purchased Jane Savoie's new Dressage 101 book. Very happy with it.

            http://www.janesavoie.com/shop/book_dressage_101.htm

            Being new to dressage, I found that it broke down the concepts/aids very clearly. Excellent diagrams, beautifully written and I enjoy Jane's imagery and explanations of how it should feel.

            Comment


            • #7
              Watch the video of Mike Schaffer riding his horse on his website. Then decide if you want your horse to be crooked, cranky, and behind the bit .

              There are plenty of better books out there.

              I have ridden in his clinics. Skip the book.
              Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
              EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

              Comment


              • #8
                Why are you training a 2 year old to do dressage? A welsh cross will not be fully mature until it is 6 or 7 years old and two is a total baby.
                "Good young horses are bred, but good advanced horses are trained" Sam Griffiths

                Comment


                • #9
                  At two yrs old, this young tb/welsh should be minimally lunged, you could be doing some ground driving and pony-ing off another horse. Working on trailering, manners,... but NOT riding him. Let him physically and mentally mature.
                  I would wait until he is 3.5 yrs old or closer to 4 yrs old, before getting on him.

                  Rush him now(physically & mentally) and pay later because you got in big stinking hurry!!!!

                  I started riding my cobs at 3.5. 3-4 days a week. They were pony-ed and ground driven from about 2.75 yrs old to 3.5 yrs old.

                  Be Patient -regardless of the breed!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In regards to your opening post, please define "broke". What exactly has been done to this young horse?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      well you can always just discuss the rate of maturity of the skeletal structures.... and say that since it is so young you are only willing to do x y z....

                      is it 2 coming 3 or just turned 2?

                      if she wont listen, and its just coming 2, then pls dont sacrifice a pony for your future.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mouse&Bay View Post
                        I just purchased Jane Savoie's new Dressage 101 book. Very happy with it.

                        http://www.janesavoie.com/shop/book_dressage_101.htm

                        Being new to dressage, I found that it broke down the concepts/aids very clearly. Excellent diagrams, beautifully written and I enjoy Jane's imagery and explanations of how it should feel.
                        This is a GREAT book. I have the older version and use it as a reference at least monthly.
                        http://cuonxc.blogspot.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Find out what month and year this young horse was born.
                          If you had to be on this horse, minimally 2.75 but I would prefer closer to 3.5.

                          You could relate to her that many racehorses are retired and sometimes euthanized before they are 3, maybe 4 yrs old because of being started so young.
                          Just because you weigh 95 lbs, it is still weight on a young horses undeveloped muscular-skelelton structure combined with repetitious work.

                          For future clientele, you need to set boundaries of what age you are willing to start riding a young horse, how much you do with them before you get on them(this is for your safety). Be flexible because each horse is an individual but keep sanity and safety in mind.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you want your horse/pony to stay sound for it's entire life, which could or should be around 30 years or more, then 3.5 to 4 tears old is the right age to start them. And then mostly at the walk (at least 50% - 60% of the time) and the rest at the trot except for some basic canter work off and on.

                            Starting off with 15 to 30 minutes and increasing the time to an hour in 15 minute/per week increments.

                            That is for the first three to six months.

                            Then you can begin to escalate more trot work and canter work.

                            The walk is the most important gait for building a conditioning foundation for strong ligaments and tendons. It is the slow distance endurance building gait. Without that foundation, your pony will risk injury later on in training when the gaits become faster (more concussion) and over a longer time period.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have two purebred pony two year olds--they are busy growing and outside of basic handling and routine care they will continue to live out in the paddock till late this summer when I will start to play a little with them in the round ring. This years goals are simple and involve mainly in-hand type work, jogging in hand, maybe trail walking and possibly one in hand outing---some might call an "acclimitzation phase."

                              That being said---a lot of pony breeders do start their youngsters under saddle earlier than would seem sensible with respect to growth ect. I think mainly its an attempt to make them more marketable-saleable. You might discuss with the owner your concerns and offer to work the pony from the ground in hand, confirming voice commands, basic training ect and limit your time actually riding the pony to very short but focused--sit-walk-trot sessions. Literally hundreds (if not thousands) of horses/ponies are started at two and survive--it doesn't make it right but it happens--and they are not all doomed to shortened careers and permanent lameness. Short controlled sessions under an experienced, balanced rider are likely less damaging for them than endless lunging/round pen work or even one uncontrolled/missmanaged free jumping session.

                              I vote for the Von Ziegner book!
                              Redbud Ranch
                              Check us out on FB

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Also, it does depend on the pony. While i would never ride a 2 yo, I did start sitting on my Connemara at 3 - one day a week while he was being lunged, then i rode him one day a week... This went on til January of this year (almost 4) when he went into full training - He got a bit stressed, so i backed him off for a month and then re-ramped the work up again (it was his teeth) now he is happy working 3 or 4 days a week for 30 minutes +/-

                                This seems like a sensible plan.

                                There is also loads of documentation you can show her. But really it is all about what year/month he was born...

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Training...der_0851319270

                                  Get a copy of this and give it to your friend. There's plenty she can do from the ground for the next year or so.
                                  Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    growth plates

                                    I was told some years ago, by a vet that, the last growth plates to close are those in the spine ; they close at 5 years!
                                    breeder of Mercury!

                                    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      The growth plates between the vertebrae continue to fuse until a horse is up to 8 years old (give or take six months).
                                      Redbud Ranch
                                      Check us out on FB

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Whoa, I did not realize the spine growth plates were the last and longest to close.

                                        I base my basic guidelines on the U.S. Cavalry approach, which is considered "conservative" by today's "standards", if you can call them that.

                                        And I actually do about 75% - 80% walking up through 6, or later depending on the horse. I don't waste my time telling people that because I get tired of being called "overly cautious" and afraid to "really train" my horse.

                                        My vet loves it though and so does my farrier.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X