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What do you think about this saddlebred/percheron?

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  • What do you think about this saddlebred/percheron?

    I'm not in the market, but trying to learn to develop an eye for conformation. No video, just some stills. He's 17hh.

    His name is Jordan -he's near the bottom of the screen.

    http://www.adamshorsesales.com/services.html

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

  • #2
    I want to bring Mac home, fix his feet and teach him how to balance himself soooooo baddddd!!!!! THAT FACE!

    What I like about Jordan is the long ilium in relation to femur, with the low stifle. His neck is tied in fine to ride up the numbers, but his shoulder angle is a wee steep, but his elbows are nice. good throat latch. neck and back are a wee long for my taste. getting a horse like that to come through is like pushing string up hill.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Cool. My look at him was:

      I liked his neck set and his legs, but was a little straight in the shoulder and a bit long in the back. I think he would be a fine lower level dressage horse with lots of application in cross training. I can't speak to jumping, but I was thinking for the price he's a nice all rounder. Without video to see his movement you really can't say for sure of course.

      Thanks for helping me with my homework!

      Paula
      He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

      Comment


      • #4
        His body is of the draft-type, IMO. Underline is very long and his front end extremely upright and in front of the shoulder. His neck comes out of his shoulder nicely, but the shoulder is too straight. Very short pasterns.

        Very low-level dressage, sure, but he'd have a hard time doing anything collected or holding a 1st level "frame".

        JMO, YMMV

        Eileen
        Mad Mare™ Studio
        Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
        http://MadMare.com

        Comment


        • #5
          i think there isnt any way to make any kind of prediction based on those photos and no vid.

          i think, with correct work he would be quite handsome, but more than that i cant say...

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Not having video is a disadvantage, IMO. Especially a saddlebred. I'd like to see how he goes -how relaxed he is in his back. I didn't look at his pasterns. His back ones look fine, but I don't know if it's just a trick of the light, but his front left almost looks vertical.

            Paula
            He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

            Comment


            • #7
              The main picture of him is misleading on the shoulder angle, IMO. The other pictures show a better slope to the shoulder. The picture that makes it look steep is because his left front leg is too far back. He looks good to me.
              Jeanie
              RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                He doesn't look especially drafty to me, but I am partial to drafts. It's like what people think of as a big dog doesn't seem big to me what with my 110lb 32" ridgeback! I think he looks pretty leggy. If I were in the market, at that price I'd ask for video. His feet look small to me -I guess that's because I am used to big old draft feet?

                Paula
                He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                  I want to bring Mac home, fix his feet and teach him how to balance himself soooooo baddddd!!!!! THAT FACE!
                  LOL I went back to look at Mac. I love him! He's something else, but gee golly 18 hh at 4 years old. He's not done yet; vertically or laterally. He is beautiful though. I love his neck. Y'know I've seen straighter shoulders in draft horses too. Gosh I'd make room in my life for him purely for kicks and giggles. The draft whore in me is awakened. Pfft of course they chopped off his tail.

                  ETA I watched the video. LOL his feet do get in his way don't they

                  Sigh.

                  Paula
                  He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'd show him under the name ImaRubbrDukki
                    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                    chaque pas est fait ensemble

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      He's adorable. Do you think the color will stay? I am partial to the black over the dapple gray.

                      Paula
                      He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                        I want to bring Mac home, fix his feet and teach him how to balance himself soooooo baddddd!!!!! THAT FACE!

                        What I like about Jordan is the long ilium in relation to femur, with the low stifle. His neck is tied in fine to ride up the numbers, but his shoulder angle is a wee steep, but his elbows are nice. good throat latch. neck and back are a wee long for my taste. getting a horse like that to come through is like pushing string up hill.
                        Mack is adorable!

                        I like the long hip, too. I don't think his shoulder is so bad, and in fact really like that it looks a different angle depending on positioning of his front legs. I've noticed horses whose shoulder angle appears to change that drastically tend to have quite a bit of freedom in the shoulders. His withers are set back behind the front legs, which is a plus for asking for collection, and tells me his shoulder's not so bad.

                        Originally posted by mbm View Post
                        i think there isnt any way to make any kind of prediction based on those photos and no vid.

                        i think, with correct work he would be quite handsome, but more than that i cant say...
                        I agree. I can make assumptions based on personal experience, but can't know for sure without seeing him in motion.

                        I do think his pasterns are a bit short and steep, but not alarmingly that I can tell from these photos. His back is definitely longer than I prefer, but some people like long backs so that's not a definite no. His topline is clearly weak - but how he uses it now and how he would do with conditioning are things we can't tell. I would also want to see how willing he is to stretch down. Just the fact he's trained to pull and built to pull tells me you're going to have a strong chance he has to learn to push from behind instead of dragging himself along with his front legs, which come out of what I'm guessing is quite a broad chest. (That's not a negative - just what I am guessing since we don't see a front view.)

                        I would predict lack of pushing from behind and lack of movement in his back right now as much from training as build, but I would want to see a hint of his ability to do both before spending even that much money on him.

                        But there's something I just *like* about him.
                        Originally posted by Silverbridge
                        If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          anytime i read threads like this, i immediately head for my nearest ODG tome to remind myself that dressage is for all horses, and all horses can be improved by it - and more importantly - that what we consider to be crap nowadays is what they used to ride, and bring along, to this highest levels.

                          i think that as with all horses - the limiting factor isn't the horse - but the rider

                          (which i guess is a long way 'round saying that nowadays people don't need to know how to really train since they want horses born with the work already done)

                          as my trainer says - what really matters is not the exterior, but how the horse works, and his mind.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by netg View Post

                            But there's something I just *like* about him.
                            me too.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Mac is adorable, but I've seen 18hh Percherons up close -he'd have a horribly hard time lifting that giant front end. I'd train him for dressage because all horses benefit from gymnastic exercises, but I'd be prepared that he'll be heavier on the forehand and wouldn't resort to gadgetry to lift him up (like bits and such). Still there's no reason he can't learn all the lateral work and play in the ring. For kicks and giggles absolutely -I can see tearing across a field at gallop on him -especially if he has that personality as advertised. And I like big butts.

                              Jordan is a nice looking guy. As you've observed -it would be interesting to see if he's got saddlebred go in his back (tight) or not. I don't think driving automatically will do that to any of them. If I was looking I'd ask for video. I think, as with Fella, he's got some great results as a 1/2 draft. And for that price -if I was looking I'd ask for video!

                              Thanks for the exercise. Now I see how the best intended one-horse folk end up with "projects" that stay forever.

                              Paula
                              He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                We have a cross just like him at our barn. Arrived as a 4 yr old last year, also broke to drive, with some under saddle time. He was big then, he is HUGE now and can be a bully. (Not his fault really, his AA owner is intimidated by him.) The person who most successfully rides him is a very tall, long legged young woman (almost 6 ft) who has the strength and finesse to push him through lots of nonsense. He does have a nice way of going - once you get him going!

                                And now - just thinking out loud - why does anyone want a horse that big (unless of course they truly need one)? Standard sized stalls are not big enough, tack is a nightmare to fit and it's really hard to find suitable turnout companions.
                                At least that's the case at our barn - geared more toward hunt/jump, although lots of us "more mature" ladies have ventured into dressage.
                                http://fromdressagehorsetocowpony.blogspot.com/

                                "I am still under the impression that there is nothing alive quite so beautiful as a thoroughbred horse." -- John Galsworthy

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  My 50/50 Perch/spotted saddlebred looked just like that at 4yo (although only 16hh at the time). He's filled out quite a bit in the last 5 years, and looks a lot more drafty than he did. But everyone who sees him go or rides him comments that he doesn't LOOK like he should be able to do what he does (3rd level dressage and prelim eventing). He collects on a dime and can jump the moon (long back, steep shoulder angle, and all). IMHO, proper training can help any horse improve their natural gaits/tendencies...and you can't beat the solid citizen draft crosses!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by lecoeurtriste View Post
                                    you can't beat the solid citizen draft crosses!
                                    I like this Jordan, too, and agree with the above sentiment. So much so that I've been spending lots of time looking at draftXes on the trail and endurance forum thread. Maybe??

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I find it so bizarre and amusing that so many people think ASBs = tight in the back. Just because they're bred for level backs and smooth, comfortable gaits, does not automatically mean they can't lift or swing through the back - they just don't do it as *much*, but that doesn't automatically mean they're tight, either.

                                      My equine massage therapist has a very large client base of H/J and Dressage clients with fancy, well-bred Warmbloods, and when she does my Saddlebred mare and my 2 ASB/WB crosses she *always* marvels at how loose and supple their back/tails are.

                                      Granted I am not aiming for FEI, but I think there's something to be said for a much smoother ride that's a dream to sit and doesn't launch you out of the tack and makes it easier for the average ammie to ride properly and move up the levels.

                                      Riders/trainers like Chrissa Hoffman, Tracy Rowe, Hilda Gurney etc have brought horses to FEI that were by no means "built" for the job, and they enjoyed it immensely because the horses were easy, fun and comfortable to ride. So what if the horses didn't bounce and swing and float? If the gaits are pure & correct and the horse has an excellent work ethic and natural rhythm, then there's no reason why the progression up the levels can't happen.

                                      I think the horse in the OP's picture is quite cute. Would need to see him move, and assess his temperament.

                                      As far as short pasterns are concerned, every single horse of mine that has short pasterns has *extremely* comfortable gaits. And stays sound.
                                      www.jlsporthorsesales.net

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Dont underestimate the SB blood and its HUGE ability to athletisize lol

                                        He could be extremely active and use himself well, but a still pic wont tell you that. Carry power really is in the training if the horse isnt so backwards in breeding and confo... Which I dont think he is.

                                        In motion I can def say yes or no to a horse in terms of gaits, but not in a confo pic. I can say Oh hmm maybe or maybe not... I think he is a definate maybe!

                                        His type isnt perfect, but is your pocket book? lol
                                        ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                                        http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

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