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Baucher bit for horse that opens mouth? UPDATED, Advice from BNT, good and bad news

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  • #41
    Originally posted by howardh View Post
    Not all behavior like this is the fault of the rider. some horses need tongue relief.
    You will be happy to know that the USDF just legalized bits with ports the rule changes will be published in Feb.

    You may be amazed the difference a port will make.
    YES!!!! That's GREAT news!!

    I've got one of those types and often use a D-ring port on many of the other horses I work with, at least to start. HUGE difference.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by naturalequus View Post
      YES!!!! That's GREAT news!!

      I've got one of those types and often use a D-ring port on many of the other horses I work with, at least to start. HUGE difference.
      I have seen horses that invert, are heavy on the forehand, stick tongues out etc. become soft and willing with a bit with tongue relief. SAME HORSE SAME RIDER.

      I personally find it a little heartbreaking when I read post after post of people struggling along in bits that don't offer tongue relief and talk about months and years of trying to get some connection.

      If the the horse is not comfortable how can it possibly perform the way we want? We would not force a horse to accept an ill fitting saddle would we?

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      • #43
        Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
        Although I often use a drop, they are really only for (young) horses which cross the jaw.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzG-0TyTuMs

        Klimke on Biotop.

        It is a little difficult to tell, exactly. But I am 98% sure what I a seeing in this video is a drop noseband. Above horse is not, exactly, emm.... green.
        Last edited by Isabeau Z Solace; Feb. 4, 2012, 09:23 PM. Reason: added link
        "Friend" me !

        http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

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        • #44
          You said the horse has a parrot mouth? This is a deformity...there is no where to comfortably PUT a bit.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by howardh View Post
            I have seen horses that invert, are heavy on the forehand, stick tongues out etc. become soft and willing with a bit with tongue relief. SAME HORSE SAME RIDER.
            One of my OTTB's is the one who was the first I started using the ported bits on after attending a Bob Myler and Jonathan Field bit demo. On the track he wore a figure-8 and racing he wore a tongue tie. When I got him he really gaped his mouth - put a simple D-ring in with a port and boom his mouth instantly shut. Since then it's been my go-to mouthpiece though of course I always have to consider what works for that horse (ie, I had one horse who just LOVED his french link - he would almost rip it out of my hands when he saw it on his bridle, so he stayed in that). The tongue relief makes such a difference, ime most horses really appreciate it.
            ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
            ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

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            • #46
              For sure the best thing for (re)training a parrot mouth is to spend 2-3 months with a normal snaffle (or full cheek) and tie the rings forward (to the loop of a flash (no flash), this will keep the action from the bars. Meanwhile use lifted hh, not closed handed/backwards one. And tongue relief comes from the horse stays (steadily) ifv (certainly not curved bits).
              I.D.E.A. yoda

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              • Original Poster

                #47
                Right now my trainer has recommended that he go in the Nathe bit, and after a few rides in it, he seems to be a bit better. A bit. Not fully improved, but I know it will take a really long time to fix this (if ever) but a bit better is good, and I'll take it as a positive.

                The main focus for right now is getting him moving consistently forward into a really steady contact (that's MY homework) and not letting him suck back behind the leg and get tight in the back. We're going to give him 30 days or consistent work in this program, and then re-assess where we're at. Trainer says horse needs to understand forward into the contact before anything else, and that should help to improve all the other issues stemming from that.

                I had asked about using a ported bit, or a different noseband (I have just a plain cavesson on now, and was using a figure 8 before as he grinds his teeth when flash is on) and he said he thinks we should just use the Nathe and regular noseband for now. I'm also incorporating regular lungeing work using 2 lead shanks that go from bit, between the front legs, and then tying up behind withers, which is seeming to help immensely. This horse curls behind side reins, and fights Pessoa rigs no end - using this method seems to work well for him.

                We're about a week in to the new program, and I have a lot more insight on what I need to do and how things need to feel then I've had in a while. Trainer also thinks that the trot will open up a lot more once the horse is really working properly through the back (which is GREAT news, since I thought I just had a short strided horse!) I have a borrowed bit in my tack trunk, just in case, it's a D-ring with a port, but I guess we'll see what the next 20+ days bring

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
                  For sure the best thing for (re)training a parrot mouth is to spend 2-3 months with a normal snaffle (or full cheek) and tie the rings forward (to the loop of a flash (no flash), this will keep the action from the bars. Meanwhile use lifted hh, not closed handed/backwards one. And tongue relief comes from the horse stays (steadily) ifv (certainly not curved bits).
                  This is a strange thread being that Ive been to barns that have EVERY SINGLE horse going in a traditional bit with success. Every breed is usually in a regular loose ring snaffle, or a french link... The drafts and Tb's sometimes in a full cheek for like two weeks or just until they can WTC without too much fuss to start if they were driven or raced... Not any other variation though... And all are eventually upgraded to a traditional bit until the double...

                  These were all European riders though... But their view was that if the horse needed a special bit it would seem to a buyer that the horse was not easy to ride or something.

                  I try to put all of mine in a traditional bit and then make sure size and width are correct...
                  ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                  http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

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                  • #49
                    From page DR27 of the 2012 USEF Rule Book: (my emphasis in bold and underlined)

                    . A double jointed bit or snaffle with rotating mouthpiece may be shaped to allow tongue relief. The maximum height of the deviation is 30mm from the lower part of tongue side to the highest part of the deviation. The widest part of the deviation must be where the mouthpiece contacts the tongue and must have a minimum width of 30 mm. (See illustration below.) The mouthpiece of a jointed or unjointed snaffle may be shaped in a slight curve within the dimensions specified above, but other ported snaffles are prohibited.
                    I'm trying to find examples of unjointed snaffles with ports but not coming up with anything... This publication, which likely needs to be updated, shows two on page 17: http://www.usef.org/documents/FormsP...entBooklet.pdf

                    The mare I got late last year really likes her Kimberwicke/Kimblewick... I would love to try an unjointed ported snaffle on her.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by naturalequus View Post
                      YES!!!! That's GREAT news!!

                      I've got one of those types and often use a D-ring port on many of the other horses I work with, at least to start. HUGE difference.
                      I've been riding my guy in one recently too...huge difference. I hope Canada adopts the same rules!
                      Boss Mare Eventing Blog
                      https://www.youtube.com/user/jealoushe

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