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Am I pushing it?

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  • Am I pushing it?

    After much lurking about, it is time to post. I am need of a shoulder to cry on, a kick up the butt and some wise words of encouragement and wisdom.

    I have access to a top quality instructor several times a year if I travel, I have fortnightly 'eyes on the ground' sessions with a well respected rider and I've also trained to 3rd level in the past, so not a complete beginner.

    My boy can move like a dream, instructors get very excited when he 'switches it on'. However, he is long backed, has as a weak back/loin connection and is built downhill to boot and after nearly 3 years of constant stuggle, I am wondering if it's really all too hard for him. It is a constant battle to get him supple through the neck, back and poll, he braces and resists every ride without fail and requires much lateral work through the walk and trot, and many transitions to get him off the hand before we have any semblance of self carriage. Once there, he is fairly easy but it sure does require some hard work and patience. I am aware he's not FEI material (have another that is) and would be extremely happy to have consistent 2nd level work with him, however I wonder if perhaps he's not suited to dressage at all. As far as possible, I can see he is sound.

    Do all horses benefit from dressage training? Any thoughts please?

  • #2
    The real questions you need to ask are 1) Are you happy riding him despite his physical challenges? 2) Is he happy?

    You both have to enjoy the journey. You're definitely learning something on this horse - it's the difficult ones that teach us the most. However, if you don't look forward to riding him, maybe you should find him another home.

    Good luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes. Any horse will benefit from the classical, dressage training methods. The gymnastic, suppling, balancing side of the training. The goal is to allow the horse to move as at liberty but under a rider. The training will make the horse more beautiful, keep him sound longer and more of a pleasure to ride.


      Whether the horse has the talent, conformation and mental stamina to make it as a competition horse in today's arenas is a completely different animal (pun intended). JMHO
      Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Spice Girl View Post
        However, he is long backed, has as a weak back/loin connection and is built downhill to boot ...
        What would happen to his back without all the work you encourage him to do?

        Since you are okay with him not being a Big Winner, I think you're doing the absolute right thing for your horse's long-term health and welfare.

        I also believe that all people benefit from strength and flexibility training such as yoga, when properly guided ... so that's my bias.
        *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CFFarm View Post
          Yes. Any horse will benefit from the classical, dressage training methods. The gymnastic, suppling, balancing side of the training. The goal is to allow the horse to move as at liberty but under a rider. The training will make the horse more beautiful, keep him sound longer and more of a pleasure to ride.


          Whether the horse has the talent, conformation and mental stamina to make it as a competition horse in today's arenas is a completely different animal (pun intended). JMHO
          I agree.

          You're not pushing him beyond his capabilities (ie, to be a Grand Prix horse versus what he is capable of, 2nd level), so yes, imo the work you are doing with him benefits him so long as it is classical. As AWG said - what would happen to his back without all the work you encourage him to do? Stretching, suppling, and strengthening his body - especially the weak areas, can be of nothing but benefit to a horse, nevermind the mental and emotional benefits.

          Imo classical dressage can benefit and improve absolutely any and every horse. Doesn't mean it is always easy (eta: this does not mean a horse should be habitually resistant and bracey - that could be your perception, a result of your training approach, a physical issue, or simply a part of the process with this horse at this time, etc).

          ETA: I also want to add that only someone knowledgeable who knows your horse - who rides your horse preferably but who at least watches your horse go (preferably a well respected and qualified instructor - even a vet) can help you decide if you are pushing your horse too far. I just meant to answer your query generally, as you asked if dressage were beneficial to every horse. Short answer - yes (imho).
          Last edited by naturalequus; Dec. 6, 2011, 11:48 PM.
          ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
          ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Spice Girl View Post
            ...after nearly 3 years of constant struggle, I am wondering if it's really all too hard for him. It is a constant battle to get him supple through the neck, back and poll, he braces and resists every ride without fail and requires much lateral work through the walk and trot, and many transitions to get him off the hand before we have any semblance of self carriage...
            Do all horses benefit from dressage training? Any thoughts please?
            I think that xQHDQ has the right questions you need to answer.

            It has been 3 years, and you state that you have plenty of dressage experience and access to good instruction and help. Assuming all of that is true (not trying to be a jerk, just trying to be clear), your horse is not going "to have consistent 2nd level work." Dressage is just hard for him. Is dressage bad for him? No. Should you stop? Unless it is not fun for you anymore or your horse is in pain, no. Your guy is just what he is, and it seems that you are frustrated about that (sorry if I am misinterpreting your post).

            In the last two months, I realized that my mare is not cut out to be a dressage only horse. It was the most relieving feeling when I finally admitted that! Riding her was not fun, we fought all the time about being round, relaxed, attentive...... Is this where you are?

            Comment


            • #7
              To me, it simply sounds like some aspect of your training or riding has gotten stale and frustrating for you. I don't see this as a horse problem--confo problems may be present, but if he excites good instructors with his movement then he has it in him. He wouldn't be able to produce the really good movement if he was really unsuited.

              If you've been working for a while with this horse, it's easy to hit a plateau, and 2nd level-ish is a classic plateau for most riders/horses. My advice would be to do something to really freshen and liven up both your relationship w/ your horse and your training routine. Some advice:

              1.Get Klimke's cavaletti book and go crazy with pole work for a while.
              2.Ride several horses that are new to you, if possible. Riding a horse that is fresh to you can bring a new prospective to your boy.
              3.Have another rider jump on him and watch him work. What do you see? A lot of time, the work looks different--good moments look better, flaws look more obvious--from the ground.
              4.If possible, pay for a training ride on him by one of your good instructors. Watch the ride and learn. They may be able to show off what the horse can do, which will inspire you. They may also have fresh training ideas after being in the saddle themselves.
              2007 Welsh Cob C X TB GG Eragon
              Our training journal.
              1989-2008 French TB Shamus Fancy
              I owned him for fifteen years, but he was his own horse.

              Comment


              • #8
                If he has a weak hind end, then dressage *could* be hard on him physically.

                The repetitiveness and the increased expectations for hind end engagement ARE hard on a horse physically, and a horse with a weak hind end (not talking about this horse as I don't know its build) may struggle unduly with the demands, and cause increased wear and tear on the stifles, hocks and SI.

                If it is hard on him physically, it will become hard on him mentally.

                Is your horse showing signs it is unhappy with the type of work asked of it? Is it showing physical wear and tear? Your vet might be a good person to ask regarding what type of work may strain your horse based on its confirmation.
                Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Spice Girl View Post

                  he is long backed, has as a weak back/loin connection and is built downhill to boot and after nearly 3 years of constant stuggle, I am wondering if it's really all too hard for him.

                  It is a constant battle to get him supple through the neck, back and poll, he braces and resists every ride without fail and requires much lateral work through the walk and trot, and many transitions to get him off the hand before we have any semblance of self carriage.

                  Once there, he is fairly easy but it sure does require some hard work and patience. I am aware he's not FEI material (have another that is) and would be extremely happy to have consistent 2nd level work with him, however I wonder if perhaps he's not suited to dressage at all.
                  I suspect he is having physical issues - assuming that you've explored physical fitness & joint supplements (eg, do a 3 month trial of Recovery EQ HA - though usually 2 weeks is sufficient to see if there is any response at all), I'd be finding him a job that he enjoys.

                  What else do you do with him?

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thank you everyone, I am feeling much better after reading all your responses.

                    I enjoy riding this horse very much, he is a tryer and once we get through the first part of our ride, he is usually very obliging. I have had rides when he's been 'easy' right from the start however they are not that often. He has had a bit of a hard time early on in his years, and he won't be going anywhere else in the future (he is 9). He is such a 'people horse' and is much loved here.

                    Yes, I guess I am frustrated. More so at me, am I pushing him to do something he isn't suited to? How much of his problems, is me? Am I expecting too much? Your replies have helped me put it all in perspective again and reminded me that the instructor we travel to has said that he needs this work to keep him as sound as possible, for as long as we can. He is on joint supplements, there was no obvious reason for this, but is more so to prevent/delay any arthritic changes etc.

                    We vary our work with dressage schooling, poles and some cavaletti work, lunging once a week and riding out (usually a nice quiet, relaxing walk) once or twice a week.

                    Yes I will be getting the vet out for a thorough check up. If anything it will be peace of mind (hopefully) that all is well with him.

                    Thank you everyone and Happy Christmas.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dressage is like yoga, we can all benefit from it, even if we are the embarrassing one giggling in the back of the class that the instructor hates.

                      I have a fabulous FEI horse who sounds similar to yours, and only I and my trainer ride him, to everyone else (including other professionals) he is pure torture. But he is a sweetheart and he loves his job, even if he doesn't always get it.

                      With him, I have found that physical fitness is key. Because of his confirmation challenges, regular work can be a bit difficult at times. So on top of daily work, I usually try to do field/hill work, trot poles and lunging/worked twice a day three-four days a week to build his fitness and help his topline without the struggle of regular work. It has made a huge difference. You might want to try something like that on top of, not replacing, regular work to increase his fitness. What you are doing is good, but the real benefit comes from adding it to regular work, not replacing the regular work. Think of it like us: riding multiple horses a day increases our fitness and our ability to ride, but riding daily AND getting regular exercise like yoga, pilates, running, etc. really bump up our fitness and strength and make us better riders. However, if we ride three days a week and run the other two days, we don't progress in our riding as much as if we were running on top of it. Make sense?

                      With the vet, double check his back and SI. Usually an overlooked culprit. Back on Track products, regular stretching, icing, massages, acupuncture, chiropractic work, fitness building, etc. all help physical issues that might be going on.

                      Best of luck to you!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I just blogged about my 20 year old downhill, long backed, "leg mover" (that's what the judges call him) and I'm struggling to get through 4-3. Honestly, we've struggled at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. I'm STOKED when I get a 60%. But, we've made 60s at each level, so I keep going because you don't improve unless you push yourself. He's a wonderful schoolmaster who has all the tricks through 4th, but it's a constant struggle to keep him truly through, in self-carriage, and over the back...let alone UPHILL in balance. We've hit a wall of late also. We may have reached our limit with 4-1 and 4-2, cuz 4-3 is kicking my tail.

                        Luckily, I have a green bean to work with, which is a nice mental break (ah, youth!). She carries herself beautifully.

                        My geezer and I are going to take a 2 week dressage hiatus and hack, enjoy each other...I'm going to download some new itunes, give him some adequan, watch some videos of Edward Gal and Steffan and I'll try again in a couple of weeks starting with poles and cavaletti. And I'm going to try not to be too hard on myself in the meantime.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          what's his diet, what shoeing is he in, and has a vet looked at him? what about a saddle fitter?

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Well, I must be more relaxed after reading all the such positive responses because the last two rides have been very good indeed.

                            Vet is coming out shortly for a check up, to be sure. Everything else such as feed, saddle fit, shoeing are all good.

                            NWDressage, he is most definately a horse that thrives on work. The past few weeks I have backed off slightly and that was perhaps enough to lose what consistency we had, and have me wondering. I must admit, I am feeling very positive again after posting this, so thank you everyone.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hampton Bay View Post
                              what's his diet, what shoeing is he in, and has a vet looked at him? what about a saddle fitter?
                              Seems you are doing all the right warmups with him and I had these same thoughts along with supplements and a chiropractor.

                              Bottom line, if he's not in pain and you are still enjoying him when the warmups are done, there should be no reason to keep going. Doing long warmups is good for all horses and riders anyway.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Are you hurting him? I doubt it. Is is difficult for him? Yes -- and it will not get any easier. I have a horse with nearly identical conformation issues. In fact, his competitive eventing career ended this spring due to a back injury. I managed him and then managed him some more and gave him the best of everything. But bodies DO have limitations. If you enjoy riding him, keep doing it. But there is a time when we have to accept that, despite hearts and brains, of which mine had more than enough, physically they just can't make it as far as we want them to.

                                So my advice would be to enjoy him at the level which he is comfortable and working well. Pushing him to something that is so hard for him can very well result in injury as he tries to please. Keeping him strong and supple is good, just be honest about his limitations and be ok with that. :-)
                                Life doesn't have perfect footing.

                                Bloggily entertain yourself with our adventures (and disasters):
                                We Are Flying Solo

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Sounds like tons of good advice in this thread!

                                  Have you thought about doing some cross training? I don't know if you have any history in any type of jumping but that can also help a weak hind end and be a fun mental mix up to boot. If you or a friend are familiar with jumping perhaps you could pop him over some low cross rails? That's actually my job as the novice dressage ex hunter rider! LOL

                                  On the subject of cross training, doing some long trotting outside the ring can be wonderful for loosening things up (mentally as well as physically!) and building stamina. Although I don't know where you are in the world so the weather might not be the greatest pretty soon!

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