• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Help! Choosing A Bit...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help! Choosing A Bit...

    I am looking for your opinion. I am trying to decide on a new bit for my horse as he just doesnt stop in the copper eggbut I ride him in now.
    So here is a little about my horse:
    He is VERY strong in the mouth. He doesn't respond to down transitions very quickly.(This is our biggest problem) BUT, He can get very supple, round, good impulsion, and just give this WOW presence after I get him bending and using his back, He just wont stop when I ask him too. He does not lean on my hands, he just barrells through them some times. Sometimes he is okay, but most of the time he just wants to go, go ,go. So I am looking for a bit that will give me some better brakes so that I dont have to fight with him. I am not looking for anything too much. It still needs to be soft as I was told by his previous owner that if you bit him up too much he hollows his back out and carries his head 50 ft. in the air & I am a strong believer in less is more. I want something simple, something he can connect into and be soft and supple. Oh yeah, it cant be copper of course. Any suggestions? I dont really want something more harsh, just something that get the message across a little better.

    I was thinking about a French link, a Dr. Bristol, or What about a waterford?


    HELP ME!!
    Last edited by spmoonie; Jun. 21, 2008, 10:19 PM. Reason: I took out the links to the ugly bits.
    "To do something that you feel in your heart that's great, you need to make a lot of mistakes. Anything that is successful is a series of mistakes." -B.J. Armstrong

  • #2
    What a hideous bit!!! (sorry), as well as illegal (so too is a slow twist). Bits dont make horses change per se, timing of the aids does. Horses can only be strong if a rider partipates in the drama, break the connection, use hh. Reward self carriage. Learning that repeated hh alert them, you can teach the horse hh/hh/transition without bracing in a fairly short time. But hh must also appropriately change the balance of the horse so that they do not feel the need to brace against the hand or onto the forehand. Horses tend to hollow when the rider lowers/fixes the hand. Why cant it be copper?
    I.D.E.A. yoda

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Copper is illegal for dressage.(isnt it??) I thought that bit was hideous too, but I have heard it is pretty soft. Trust me, I dont think I would have bought it, too expensive. So slow twist is out. I will work on his transitions more and hh's but the problem is that about 50% of the time he doesnt listen to the hh's and wont transition. And when he does, he imediatly breaks back into the trot or canter. Unfortunantly, I end up having to jerk on him to get him to stop, which I HATE. It makes me feel bad.
      "To do something that you feel in your heart that's great, you need to make a lot of mistakes. Anything that is successful is a series of mistakes." -B.J. Armstrong

      Comment


      • #4
        Copper is not illegal if it is ALL copper in the mouthpiece; I think that is only mixed metal bits.

        have you tried the myler? legal, and I know horses that respect it more than a plain snaffle.

        Have you tried some time in the round pen, trying to get transitions from your seat only? It's fun, too.... and has really helped my seat in many ways. Are you sire you are not leaning forward with your upper body when you ask for the transition? Just melt into the saddle....
        (But I am sure you have tried this, sorry.....)

        L

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          I will look at the mylers. I have tried just about every approach to the transitioning, but its okay. I will try again!
          "To do something that you feel in your heart that's great, you need to make a lot of mistakes. Anything that is successful is a series of mistakes." -B.J. Armstrong

          Comment


          • #6
            DR 121.14. The provisions of DR121 apply to both competing and non-competing dressage horses from the time horses are admitted to the grounds which are designated for the Dressage Competition. Figure 1. Bits Permitted in Dressage.
            All bits (in A and B below) must be smooth and with a solid surface. Twisted, wire and roller bits are prohibited. A bushing or coupling is permitted as the center link in a double jointed snaffle, however, the surface of the center piece must be solid with no moveable parts. The mouthpiece of a snaffle may be shaped in a slight curve, but ported snaffles are prohibited. ......... Bits (including curb and/or bridoon bits of a double bridle) must be made of metal or rigid plastic and may be covered with rubber; flexible rubber bits are not permitted, except as noted below, under A..................
            Any of the above may be made with a rubber, plastic or leather covering, but the bit may not be modified by adding latex or other material. Bits with mouthpieces made of synthetic material are permitted, provided that the contours of the bit conform to the contours of one of the bits pictured above. Flexible rubber or synthetic mouthpieces are permitted.

            Doesnt have to be of one metal.

            If a horse doesnt listen to hh (or breaks) then it is out of balance and the timing/aids/balance suggested needs a different application. You do not have to jerk, you need a different methodology. If nothing else ride toward the wall and hh, horses merely defend themselves.
            I.D.E.A. yoda

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Haha. It just gets more complicated: Our arena doesnt have a fence around it so there is no riding towards the wall. Our main problem is after do a little canter work, my boy gets so excited and just wont walk, which is a problem in our dressage tests. I appreciate you trying to help me figure out this peculiar and complicated situation. P.S. So can it be copper or not?
              "To do something that you feel in your heart that's great, you need to make a lot of mistakes. Anything that is successful is a series of mistakes." -B.J. Armstrong

              Comment


              • #8
                I just noticed your thread after posting mine and I have been wondering the same thing-looking for a bit that can help me to communicate in the most effective way possible. Unfortunately part of the problem is me, but I have a similar problem to you where the downward transitions are 95% of the time fine, yet the other 5% she runs through my hand. It's frustrating and I feel your pain!
                Luna's Equine Designs - Custom stall signs and more! https://www.facebook.com/LunasEquineDesigns

                Comment


                • #9
                  Copper is OK BUT

                  The only way through this IS transitions, transitions, transitions. However, they must be asked for properly and consistantly on your part.

                  You need an instructor who will teach you how to do transitions on the longe-no hands- then you and your horse can begin to understand how to work together.
                  Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                  Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Transitions yes, but based upon hh which fold the hindlegs and get the horse up and (more) open. Most hh dont work because the rider has manipulated the horse low and excessively flexed, then the horse braces into hand in order to stay upright. Equally most riders have their upper arms away from the trunk (with straight elbows) so the seat doesnt 'work'. The riders needs to learn timing/alignment, and the horse likely needs a person who can ride an effect hh to (re)teach them how to react appropriately. And that rarely comes from a new bit.
                    I.D.E.A. yoda

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      back to the basics. if you can't stop your horse, he does not respect you, your aids, or your equipment (bit)

                      horses do not get to "choose" when they want to react to an aid.


                      if you say "whoa" and use your reins, your horse better stop. now.

                      later, you just say whoa, and your horse better stop, now.

                      then, you use just your core, and deepen your leg, and your horse better stop, now.

                      progression to easier, lighter aids is great, as long as you don't lose the quality of reaction somewhere along the line. the point is to heighten reaction while diminishing the strength of aid.

                      three things that NEVER get compromised on with my horses starting at 3 yrs old under saddle are Go, Stop and Turn. everything else is moot if you can't do these three things every time.

                      yes sometimes things get a little tougher, the reactions may get a little slower when you are trying to introduce a new concept (hh) BUT, respect is respect, and you have to make your horse have submission to your aids, especially to the bit. there is no grey area in that concept.

                      so bitting up hor horse is putting a band-aid on the issue that he doesn't listen to you, and certainly does not have respect for your aids.

                      back to the basics
                      Nothing worth having comes easily.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        I am not trying to bit him up. I continuously work on transitions with him, but he is like a train. I have never ridden a horse sooooo strong. I agree, he doesnt respect my aids, and he still needs more work on the basics but I still think he needs something a little more. He has a tough mouth. What do you think about a french link with more narrow "bars?"
                        "To do something that you feel in your heart that's great, you need to make a lot of mistakes. Anything that is successful is a series of mistakes." -B.J. Armstrong

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Tough mouths are either because the nerves are injured or because the balance is incorrect. If need be, start all over (on the ground) to educate the mouth (to chew), etc. Teach the horse to react to pressue on the lips (not the bars/tongue). And perhaps take off off caveson. A tough mouth is an immobile jaw or a fixed one which is self defense. No bit will change that. Whoa originates in the seat/balance/work in hand/progressive education of the horse.
                          I.D.E.A. yoda

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            french links dont educate a horse to "whoa". they do encourage chewing, and help prevent leaning or pulling...

                            but the horse needs to understand whoa in a halter on the ground, and one the longe first.

                            when you longe him, can he do a canter-halt within seconds from your voice command only? that is a tool that is very, very helpful to have.

                            bitting up a horse is just choosing a more severe bit than the one that is on it now, to help you ride him easier. that is what you are trying to do.

                            I agree with ideayoda, you need to establish respect on the ground and on the longe first.

                            plus, i am guessing your horse is extremely stiff in the neck and ribcage since he is so tough in the mouth.

                            a tough mouthed horse can not be easily suppled in the rest of his body. the mouth is the window to the body for the rider. tough mouth = tough body.

                            soft mouth = softer body (most of the time)

                            as in, you need to address your horse's whole body stiffness, not just the mouth, but it is where the initial submission has to me created.
                            Nothing worth having comes easily.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X