• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Medium vs. extended trot

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Medium vs. extended trot

    My mare and I have been working hard to develop our medium trot and finally have achieved a fairly decent effort. She's a bit short backed, so collection comes much more easily than the medium gaits - I have to be careful to really make sure she's motoring from behind and really lengthening her stride instead of just getting quicker. She's really a 6-er on this movement, and I'm okay with that, because we make up for it elsewhere.

    However, as we work toward Third at some point next year (still working on improving our scores at 2nd, but we're getting there) - my concern is really how to delineate between the medium and extended trots.

    For those riders on horses whose medium and extended gaits are not necessarily their forte, how do you work with this? I feel as though I'm pushing for all I can during the medium right now, but I'm sure as she continues to build strength, we'll get more thrust. But, as I said, I'm not sure this will ever be our strong suit.

    I am in no rush to move up but do recognize this will be something we need to address. Any tips/advice from anyone with a similar ride?
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

    A Voice Halted

  • #2
    I have the same issue with my horse. She is not naturally gifted in the extended gaits department Collection is much easier.

    I ride with Charles de Kunffy frequently and he has worked with me on this issue. He believes that horses can only extend as much as they can collect. Meaning the horses hind legs are like springs that you load with the collected work, thus creating enough energy and thrust to enable the horse to extend. He has drilled into my head "the horse can only extend as much as he can collect".

    So we have improved our extended gaits by working through the collected work and vice versa...it is all related.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have the same issue with my gelding. He has an amazing ability to collect but tries to rush his mediums. He did start offering passage when I was schooling 2nd level, and my trainers have helped us use the push and suspension created in the passage to get my mediums. It's working! Passage to medium with the same tempo and back.
      He also has a good piaffe, which I use as a tool to get him really sitting.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have a bit of a different problem-my medium trot looks more like the extended trot-covering as much ground as we can. My trainer has been wanting me to add more suspension and roundness to my Meduims, and not let him go past my seat so he can take over like he does in the extensions. Kind of like what baroqueNheart described-more loft. The biggest thing showing 3rd level is to show a difference from your mediums and your extensions, so if you have to ride your mediums more conservatively to show a bigger extensions I would do that. In order to train for better ones I would do what DQonaDraft said-does lots of changes of gaits within the gaits to better develop strength. I like to do these on a 20 M circle, and I try to do these quickly so you also get them reacting faster to your aids. Just a few strides of collected, medium, collected, extended, uber collected, etc. It may not look like what you would ride in front of a judge, but thats ok it training. Just keep working to make them the best they can be and be happy with what your horse offers you. If your horse is diving on the forehand don't continue with the medium or extension-bring her back to the collected trot on her hind end , then ask again. Keep correcting the diving and lots of half halts if she tries to get fast and flat. Also don't school the whole diagonal as if its a strength issue she might get fast because she can't hold it. Bring her back over X then go again. Hope some of this helps!

        Comment


        • #5
          I haven't reached a point to have to make this differentiation yet, but I have a related question if I may jump in...

          My horse is another collection-inclined type, and I've found for first level "trot lengthenings" pretty much don't exist. While I don't have the control to really show a difference between them, we have mediums and extendeds coming along well, and as noted above they come from the collection. Is a "lengthened trot" something I should even worry about, or just do the mediums at 1st level? So far I think that seems like it should be acceptable, and I just sneak in a little collected trot on the corners before it to get him ready for it...
          Originally posted by Silverbridge
          If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

          Comment


          • #6
            You cannot really develop your extensions until you develop at least some collection first. The exception is if you are out hacking and your horse really is working correctly, then it can be quite easy to ask for some extension (in the way of a more forward loftier trot that is ground covering). That is one method of starting that helps a lot, but it is difficult once you get back into an arena without developing the collection so that you have something to extend.

            Some horses don't really have great extension due to their conformation, but they often are able to give more suspension (loftier) and they can begin to collect with some forward power coming through ... then you can ease them out into a more extended trot than their regular working trot.

            Think developing the spine of the horse poll to tail as if it were a rubberband. Don't let things get tense because you are trying to hard.

            I am thinking of horses that are built very compactly ... the reason I like to use them as an example is because they are so much more difficult to develop than the horse that is naturally gifted.

            If you can develop the extended-gait challenged horse, you can develop the natural without even trying .

            Comment


            • #7
              netg, without seeing photos ( ) of your horse it's hard to tell, but basing what you have said on the struggles I had with a very no extension horse I had a long time ago, it sounds like you are approaching it the right way.

              She did however work extremely well with what nature gave her, abnd she had an incredible amount of suspension which I used to get the forward ground covering trot. In other words I substituted suspension for extension. That was the best she could do, but her work on the aids was outstanding and it was obvious that she gave her all with what she had and covered a lot of ground by throwing in more air time [sic. or] (eta: this should have been NOT) not speeding up.

              ETA: on the above challenged horse, she did have a very supple spine from training both laterally and poll to tail, it just that she was so compact that it didn't show much change compared with a very large big mover. But her natural suspension did give her a very beautiful overall appearence and she got a lot of compliments and beat out a lot of more expensive big movers.
              Last edited by BaroquePony; Oct. 28, 2011, 06:32 AM.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                We are working hard to continue developing increased collection and suppleness. One thing that was really difficult for me moving up to Second was not just achieving the mediums but effectively SITTING them. Her trot has quite a bit of suspension so it took me quite a while to really get comfortable at the working gaits - of course now working in the collected trot is much easier, but it has taken me a while to really go fluidly with the medium trot.

                I think once we move up to Third, whenever that may be, it will likely be what someone mentioned above - we're just going to have to really work hard to show a very clear difference between the collected trot, medium and extended trot, and I may have to rein the medium trot back a bit in order to show a real difference between that and the extended trot. I think that because collection comes a bit easier to her conformationally, it will be easier to show a clear difference transitioning back down to the collected trot.

                I am working a lot on transitions within the gaits, continuing to build up strength in her hind end, etc. I'm sure it will come with time and hard work.
                Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

                A Voice Halted

                Comment


                • #9
                  In addition to what's been said above, some horses really need to develop strength and learn pushing power (vs. carrying power). Make sure you are doing enough cavaletti, marching walk up and down hills, and letting her really move out (trot or canter/hand gallop) to grow the muscles so she has more to offer you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    so would a good exercise for developing extended trot be doing medium trot over cavalettis?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BaroquePony View Post
                      netg, without seeing photos ( ) of your horse it's hard to tell, but basing what you have said on the struggles I had with a very no extension horse I had a long time ago, it sounds like you are approaching it the right way.

                      She did however work extremely well with what nature gave her, abnd she had an incredible amount of suspension which I used to get the forward ground covering trot. In other words I substituted suspension for extension. That was the best she could do, but her work on the aids was outstanding and it was obvious that she gave her all with what she had and covered a lot of ground by throwing in more air time or speeding up.

                      ETA: on the above challenged horse, she did have a very supple spine from training both laterally and poll to tail, it just that she was so compact that it didn't show much change compared with a very large big mover. But her natural suspension did give her a very beautiful overall appearence and she got a lot of compliments and beat out a lot of more expensive big movers.
                      For his change he has to increase the suspension - and he can get up to about 12" of overtrack in it. But there's definitely a much more uphill, more sitting, trot to get to it than to go from a 1st level working trot to a trot lengthening. It's one of those things I don't worry about really, but just kind of wonder... I know his trot will be ok for moving up, and that's what I really care about - continuing to progress and develop greater suppleness and strength while maintaining relaxation.
                      Originally posted by Silverbridge
                      If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DQonaDraft View Post
                        I ride with Charles de Kunffy frequently and he has worked with me on this issue. He believes that horses can only extend as much as they can collect. Meaning the horses hind legs are like springs that you load with the collected work, thus creating enough energy and thrust to enable the horse to extend. He has drilled into my head "the horse can only extend as much as he can collect".

                        This is very true. Some horses may never have a great trot lengthening, but once that collection is really solid, the medium and extended trot will be there. My top horse, who came off the track with a trot like a sewing machine, is proof of that. Before his collection was solid, he would scurry and rush in his lengthenings, rather resembling a bug running across the floor. Once he was in solid collection he had a great extended trot. He even surprised himself.

                        For the less naturally endowed horses, it really is all about "coiling that spring".



                        http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com
                        Facebook page
                        http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          I suspect that's why our mediums are finally clicking...I am finally able to "coil" her and when I really push her out into the medium now, it's much easier (what a relative term) to get it. We are still a work in progress.

                          I'm planning to incorporate more cavaletti - especially since we'll be stuck in the arena all week as it gets dark earlier. Over the weekends we do like to hack out and we'll do a hand gallop every now and then up the long, uphill farm driveway. Gotta keep strengthening that 21 year old butt.
                          Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

                          A Voice Halted

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Caveletti and a tad higher head set have helped increase my horse's strength and scores on the extended trot. If you can set the cavaletti to 8-12 inches high, that's even better.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ground poles lunging and shoulder/haunches in mounted.

                              You are looking for stretch and engagement from behind.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X