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There IS a market for a mixed breed stallion?

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  • There IS a market for a mixed breed stallion?

    Just curious, as there is a farm local to me that is standing a few stallions, including a champagne-colored 3/4 Friesian, 1/4 Saddlebred. He's not under saddle yet to my knowledge, and is by their own full FHANA stallion who has no performance record yet either (I believe he's only 5, himself). I don't know for sure, but would believe the mare has no performance record either.

    Am I missing something? Aside from the 'pretty color with lots of hair' aspect?

  • #2
    Sadly, just because it's all about the hair and color doesn't mean there isn't a market for him. There are a lot of mare owners who shouldn't be breeding their horses too after all.
    exploring the relationship between horse and human


    • #3
      Maybe for those who like a Heinz 57 mix
      My trainer has a very nice Lusitano Stallion and she is her best customer. She maybe bred two outside mares last year, the rest were her own. This year she is not even going to breed her own.

      Patience and Consistency are Your Friends


      • #4
        They are calling those "Georgian Grandes." Some of those Friesian/Saddlebred crosses come out as really nice horses, though the lack of performance record in this instance would make me skeptical.
        "Winter's a good time to stay in and cuddle,
        but put me in summer and I'll be a... happy snowman!!!"

        Trolls be trollin'! -DH


        • #5
          I was thinking Friesian Sporthorse, too.

          What are warmbloods but a mixture of horses with various traits to get the desired traits? While I personally wouldn't choose to breed Friesian crosses, I've known some from careful breeders who were quite nice. I've heard that typically the second generation of a cross is nicer than the first - so that's a reason if you like the quality which results from such a pairing to breed for it.

          I think breeding a 5 year old stallion with no performance record is completely silly, regardless of how high quality he may or may not be, of any type. If you're breeding your own horses so he will have offspring old enough to compare quality in when he has the record, that's different, though still not something I like to see, personally.

          (That said... we have a Friesian cross who is wonderful as my mom's trail horse and a fun play project for me, and her Friesian sire is nice... but her dam shouldn't have been bred to anything IMHO.)
          Originally posted by Silverbridge
          If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.


          • #6
            FHANA and FPS have strict standards when approving a stallion. Their stallion may be registered with FHANA but it most probably not approved for breeding.
            Additionally FPS and Fhana do not allow cross breeding from their approved stallions. FPZV will allow crosses.
            I think there will always be a market for a "horse of a different color" (with hair) just like there is for designer dogs (labradoodles, puggles). What kills me is that they are often being offered for sale for as much as a pure bred horse with performance records.
            Last edited by Airfern; Oct. 18, 2011, 04:13 PM. Reason: added to post


            • Original Poster

              Originally posted by Airfern View Post
              FHANA and FPS have strict standards when approving a stallion. Their stallion may be registered with FHANA but it most probably not approved for breeding.
              From the website:
              Full papered Stallion Candidate stam 50, 2nd premium, GRAND CHAMPION COLT will be presented for stallion at age 5.

              That is, of course, the fullblood, not the 3/4.


              • #8
                Stallions registered in the Foal Book which are age 3 or older may be presented as candidates for the Central Stallion Proving for Studbook Stallions

                Presented and approved are two different things.

                So even thought they are presenting their 5 year old FHANA stallion this does not mean it has been approved for studbook. If it were, then it would be given a Provisional Approval for Breeding which by FHANA rules means no cross breeding.

                I could not find any rules for breeding of the colt prior to being presented for stallion testing or if it would disqualify him. Maybe this is a loophole for crossbreeding without a penality if you breed prior to being approved.


                • #9
                  There is hardly a market for full-papered stallions with performance records, so my answer would be no..... But then I guess if all you're going to do is keep the stallion in his little run and not compete him, any additional breeding fee is gravy???
                  Siegi Belz
                  2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                  Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


                  • #10
                    Saddlebreds are one breed judged on their performance and not their colour; ie they are not discriminated against just because they are palomino, pinto or champage. Coloured horses have never been 'weeded out' due to fashions of the times, suspicion of their breeding, belief they are somehow deformed etc.

                    That means that there are many horses of colour in the breed that have excellent performance in their parents, in themselves, or both. Unlike TB for example or Friesian.

                    I find the comments on this thread a little bit sad and symptomatic of what happens when colour becomes popular and people start trying to get it into their breeds willy nilly, and the results are not great, and then people view ALL breeds and crosses with the same jaundiced eyes. Understandable, but sad.


                    • #11
                      I am always amazed at the people who think that a pretty colored horse is better than a plain bay. Pretty and better are not synonyms.


                      • #12
                        But sometimes they are just as nice. Just because a horse is a "dilute" color, doesn't mean they aren't nice either.
                        "Sadly, some people's greatest skill, is being an idiot". (facebook profile pic I saw).


                        • Original Poster

                          I don't care what color it is, and that wasn't really the point of my question. It could be pink with purple polka dots and blue zebra stripes and I'm still going to wonder the desire to breed if it's an unproven mutt.


                          • #14
                            By the same reasoning many Warmbloods are mutts as well, with the amount of stallions around out of TB or TB bred mares.

                            But to answer your question, yes there is a market for Georgian Grandes. They are popular for riders who do not want to deal with Warmbloods.

                            Assessments would be important but less crucial for this department; attitude and amateur friendly are, I feel, not so well assessed in tests geared towards high performance and professional riders.

                            Ridden performance would be helpful, but to be honest any horse can do well at lower levels, it wouldn't really 'prove' anything apart from being suitable as a riding horse. And of course, genetics pass on regardless of performance.

                            I think there are people paralysed by figures on sheets. It is not too difficult to step back and have a look at the horse and decide if it is what you want.
                            Last edited by silvia; Oct. 19, 2011, 04:12 AM.


                            • #15
                              I sure hope so. My best dressage horse EVER was an Arabian/Standardbred mare. GO FIGURE!


                              • #16
                                I'm not against pretty colored hoses (quite fond of them actually ) or mixed breed stallions. I'm considering breeding a half Arabian mare I own if she performs as well as I think she might.

                                But the OP said he's a mixed breed stallion of a notoriously faddish breed (as in, quite popular right now and a lot of ignorant breeders, not that the breed itself is bad) with a pretty color. If his sire is only 5 tops, then he's very young as well, and according to the OP it's very unlikely that either one has a performance record.

                                So yeah, I'm pretty sad that there will most likely be people who want to breed their mares to him. But it isn't because he isn't purebred or because he's a fancy color. It's because it sends up all the red flags of krazy kolor breeding as I believe it's often called.
                                exploring the relationship between horse and human


                                • #17
                                  Good Grief! What a thread to wake up to.

                                  I am not sure there is a market for anything right now. Period.

                                  Performance records do not mean anything to me. I have certainly come across numerous animals whose parentage was fabulous and they have no mind and little else going for them. Someone got good money for them just because.

                                  I like pretty. So what? If you can have pretty with a good mind and rideabilty what do you care? THEY were ALL mutts not too long ago.

                                  If someone does NOT breed outside the cliques the gene pool will stagnate. Not saying you should breed to Billy Bobs racking horse, but this guy sounds fine to me and you just might get some WOW factor as well.

                                  Then too, maybe YOUR horse will be the fantastic performance horse that will prove the stallion to be worthwhile.

                                  Rich does NOT coincide with intelligence and knowledge. Not everyone can afford the money especially in this economy to market their horses and their offspring. Doesn't mean the animals are less than anything else. Marketing companies would not exist if marketing did not work.

                                  It is called "dazzle".
                                  “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
                                  ? Albert Einstein


                                  • Original Poster

                                    Originally posted by horsefaerie View Post
                                    Performance records do not mean anything to me.
                                    I like pretty. So what? If you can have pretty with a good mind and rideabilty what do you care?
                                    Mutt that produces great conformation, soundness, and talent? Sign me up. Pretty color on top of that? Even better. Let's put him with my black bay sabino and see what he produces (did I mention the 1/2 SB dam was a pinto?).

                                    He's 3. Unbroken. Only basic groundwork. Good mind, rideability, soundness, etc. are all totally unknown at this point. The only 'known' is "dazzle", as you put it. Not sure what the money/marketing comments are related to, obviously this lady has plenty of money if she's got multiple stallions AND dozens of their offspring in training.

                                    I'm not opposed to crosses, or Saddlebreds, at all. In fact, I almost bought a pretty buckskin SB/TB filly a few years ago when a local breeder was liquidating - nice mover, OK conformation, but mechanically messed up in one front leg; she stood straight but at the walk and trot toed out on one leg and the fetlock joint would rotate/swing inwards with each step. Breeder feigned ignorance and when asked whether the filly had moved that way since birth or if it was recent/injury/shoeing related, said she really hadn't noticed.


                                    • #19
                                      Even if I had a compatible mare... I still wouldnt do it.

                                      With all of the proven stallions out there, I don't see the risk as worth it. I know, all breeding is a risk. I could breed to an international star and end up with a dud. However, I could breed to this guy and end up with a dud. At least the dud with good breeding still has something going for him.


                                      (Oh, and my current show horse is a flashy QH, so it's not that I hate colorful horses or off breeds).


                                      • #20
                                        [QUOTE] At least the dud with good breeding still has something going for him. /QUOTE]

                                        That is my point. NO, it does not. It is just, as a rule, an expensive dud.
                                        “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
                                        ? Albert Einstein