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Pan Am vs Olympics

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  • Pan Am vs Olympics

    I saw an interesting announcement on the home page for COTH. It said that Laura Kraut (jumper rider) and Cedric were going to be unable to make the games due to quarantine issues.

    But what I saw that was interesting was the fact that they had been (Laura riding Cedric) on the Olympic team in 2008 and had won team gold. Here's the interesting question for me. In dressage at the Pan Am games the horses are all doing PSG/I1. It is not kosher for our top horse, Ravel, to go back a step to PSG and I1 and go to the games. Why not? Why is the jumping team allowed to send former Olympic riders and their horses?

    What is the reason for the difference? Hmmmmm...
    "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

  • #2
    The Pan Ams are going to be qualifying for both Teams and Individuals. Its pretty safe to assume that SP and Ravel are already qualified for the Olympics. Isn't the U.S. already qualified for the Olympics.

    Due to their dismal 10th place finish at the WEG, and McLain Ward was the highest placing rider the U.S. Show Jumping team HAS to qualify at the Pan Am Games. That's why the are trying to send their best horse and rider combinations.
    "I'm holding out for the $100,000 Crossrail Classic in 2012." --mem
    "With all due respect.. may I suggest you take up Croquet?" --belambi
    Proud Member of the Opinionated Redhead Club!


    • #3
      1. The US is already qualified for the Olympics in dressage, so we don't need 'ringers' this year.

      2. Because of 1, it's silly to send our top GP horses and risk injury the year before the Olympics.

      3. Because of 1, it's silly to make our top GP horses spend what amounts to a full season in the small tour (by the time you make and learn a new freestyle, show enough to qualify for the trials, attend trials, training camp, and the Pan Ams). This means a lot of time away from GP work.

      4. Our current crop of small tour horses is very strong- and I'd bet that they'd beat at least some of our GP horses at the small tour level right now.


      • #4
        I think that you can send whomever you want, at whatever level you want, to the Pan Ams, though usually it is the "developing" or sort of "B" team riders that go in all disciplines. I believe, however, that the Show Jumping team's qualification for the Olympics may be iffy, so they are probably trying to sent the "A" team, rather than developing riders. I'm not sure, but I think I heard something to the effect that they were not yet qualified for London. Or...they may be sending a mixed team, since Beezie Madden's horse (Via Volo? something like that?) has been winning in Europe, but is still a relatively new ride for her. While I'm sure Madden would never be considered "second string," they probably want to try out her newer horse even more before 2012.


        • Original Poster

          Originally posted by tm
          What joiedevie said, plus, IIRC, by FEI rules, once a horse has placed 10th or better in a CDIO, it cannot be shown internationally at a lower level. So Ravel would not be eligible to drop down a level.
          That was part of my problem when I saw it. Why in dressage is is okay to go back down a step, but in jumping once you've already been to the Olympics or an event of that level (say, WEG, too) why would you be able to go back to the Pan Am games when it really is a step down?
          "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


          • #6
            I believe the individual final at the Pan Ams is held at Olympic height for the show jumpers (1.6m).


            • #7
              I am guessing that the U.S. Show Jumping is not looking at the Pan Am Games as a step down but as a gift. Hopefully the will place, assuming their stiffest competition is Canada and Brazil.
              "I'm holding out for the $100,000 Crossrail Classic in 2012." --mem
              "With all due respect.. may I suggest you take up Croquet?" --belambi
              Proud Member of the Opinionated Redhead Club!


              • #8
                Show jumping at the Pan Am's is not as much a step down (if it is at all) from the Olympics like it is in dressage.


                • Original Poster

                  Originally posted by ponysize View Post
                  Show jumping at the Pan Am's is not as much a step down (if it is at all) from the Olympics like it is in dressage.
                  But that's the whole point. Why is it different for the two disciplines?? Why the double standard?
                  "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


                  • #10
                    Because it's apples and oranges. This is all about bringing countries together for sport, just like the Olympics, but on a regional scale. You have more that can compete at that level of dressage than GP is my guess so it opens more teams to competition from smaller countries.


                    • #11
                      I could be totally off base but isn't jumping a bigger discipline in Latin America than dressage? So, if we were to send our best dressage, they couldn't compete, but they can in the jumping arena?


                      • #12
                        Actually, I believe that the horses that go to the Pan Am Games for dressage are not allowed to have competed at GP. It's a Small Tour Test.
                        Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
                        Now apparently completely invisible!


                        • #13
                          Hasn't Paragon competed at GP? I think Paragon is going down to Pan Am.
                          Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique


                          • #14
                            Paragon competed in GP in one national show (well, one weekend, technically two shows).

                            The FEI rules only limit the number of times a horse competes in FEI-sanctioned shows at a higher level. Meaning they can't have placed or won at CDIs. National shows don't count for this rule, so Paragon is within the rules.


                            • #15
                              I think that the countries that we compete against in the Pan Ams are much further along in show jumping than they are in dressage. If we held the competition at Grand Prix level in dressage, I don't think as many countries would be able to field a team....just sayin.


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by yaya View Post
                                Paragon competed in GP in one national show (well, one weekend, technically two shows).

                                The FEI rules only limit the number of times a horse competes in FEI-sanctioned shows at a higher level. Meaning they can't have placed or won at CDIs. National shows don't count for this rule, so Paragon is within the rules.
                                Thanks! Holy crap, will I ever understand this all?
                                Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique


                                • #17
                                  What I don't get is why USEF let the horses take off today, knowing they were headed for a Category 3 hurricane.

                                  Hopefully they are far enough inland, but Guadalajara is still in the "extreme threat" zone.