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Oldenburgs? Holsteiners? Give me the good, bad and the ugly.

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  • Oldenburgs? Holsteiners? Give me the good, bad and the ugly.

    To make a long story short, I am planning on getting back into riding again. However this time, I really want to explore dressage. Before I went to college I primarily evented, but the technical and demanding side of dressage has always intrigued me. I am planning on getting a horse within the next year or two that I can train and grow with (and no I don't want this to devolve into a discussion of the merits of learning on a schoolmaster versus greenie), that if I so choose, I could also play around with in jumpers or eventing. Let me also say, up till now all I have ever owned and trained is TBs.

    I have recently begun exploring WB breeds and so far I like the Oldenburgs and Holsteiners, mainly for what seems their versatility and athleticism. I'd love people's personal experiences with them in dressage or otherwise as it may be, as far as temperament, riding, etc.

    Asking for your two cents please!
    (I might add I searched and did not find much but maybe I should have gone through all 10+ pages first)
    [i]Only great sorrow or great joy can reveal your truth.~ Kahlil Gibran
    My current project of local food/sustainability http://community.fingerlakesfoodie.com

  • #2
    Well, my vote is to drive over to the FL track and pick something out.... Especially this time of year, within the next month you could probably get a seriously great deal...
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

    Comment


    • #3
      Holsteiner any day. They have way better resale value, and the Holsteiner inspections are tough and regulations are strict, whereas the Oldies have begun to let a lot of less than spectacular horses in their registry. It is tough to be a Hosteiner, but it is pretty easy to be an Oldenburg. Plus the temperments of most Holsteiners is pretty good! I've seen some hotties, but most are darling... I've had less thrilling experiences with Oldies, but heck was it an Oldie or KWPN reject or a TB or all three? They are all so different because so many breeds are in there.
      "The best pace is a suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die!"
      ----> Pre

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      • #4
        I can't speak for Oldies (I've only sat on one or two), but I have enjoyed all the Holsteiners I've ridden.

        Comment


        • #5
          Frankly, I think it is less about registry and more about pedigree.

          There are certain lines for each that produce horses that are better prospects for dressage or h/j or eventing. Go to see horses you like - then do the research into their background.

          I love my Oldenburg mare, but have moved into the Dutch rather by default lately. I also adore my TBs for their athleticism and all around attributes. That said - my TBs are "old" bloodlines, with substance and brains. Which is why I feel it is less about what they are and more about who they are.

          FWIW.
          Originally posted by SmartAlex

          Give it up. Many of us CoTHers are trapped at a computer all day with no way out, and we hunt in packs. So far it as all been in good fun. You should be thankful for that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Oldenburgs are more of a "type" rather than a breed. You have to look at the actual papers and see what breed they actually are. You can have an Oldenburg that is nearly 100% TB or one that is full Hanoverian, Holsteiner, etc. So, as far as Oldenburg, look at the actual breeding to see what you are actually getting. I have seen nice horses from both registries....I think you just need to look at individuals.

            As for me, I do eventing and dressage on the same horses and have found that I like a Hanoverian/Trakehner cross. The Hanoverian seems to give brain and a nice solid body, while the Trakehner adds the spirit and endurance needed to event. My two crosses are reg. Oldenburgs.

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            • #7
              Holsteiners are predominantly bred for show jumping ability. That said, there are some very nice dressage producing holsteiners. There are two Oldenburg studbooks. Oldenburg GOV (German Oldenburg Verband) and the US studbook. I think it is important to make that distinction, because they don't necessarily approve the same stock for breeding or have the same criteria.

              With any warmblood it is going to come down to the bloodlines before the studbook, imo. The studbooks are registries based on a location, such as the Holstein region in Germany, for example. There are Holsteiner stallions that are known for throwing dressage and some that are not and vice versa with Oldenburgs, KWPN, Hanoverians, etc.

              I think you set your parameters (i.e. sex, age, training level) and then go look for individuals who meet them and if it happens to be a certain registry, then great.

              Good luck shopping.
              DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                I'll throw another into the mix for you. I usually don't like riding WB's because they don't read my mind like a TB does,... until my latest training/resale project. He's a Selles Francais/Oldenburg. You think it, he does it. So nice and light and responsive and sensitive but sane and level headed. His owner says that all the selles francais he's known are that way... this is my first experience with one under saddle and so far he's opened my eyes to what WB's can be.
                www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                chaque pas est fait ensemble

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                • #9
                  I have an Oldenburg I dabble in dressage with. I bought her to do eventing with and haven't made it that far.

                  She's very smart. Very very smart. Also flighty, but has a good work ethic overall. Beefy but refined.

                  I have not jumped her but have seen her jumped. Very scopey. She isn't very fast-she'd never make in the jumpers. But she's got movement to die for.

                  She's Oldenburg NA. Looking at her papers and lines, she's actually a Hanoverian. Weltmeyer and Werbellin lines.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    I love my TBS, I just think it would be fun to try something new. But alas nothing will happen until we have found and purchased a home with some acreage, to provide a future home for my amazing TB who is leased out at the moment and to a future warmblood dressage prospect.

                    As with any horse, it obviously comes down to the individual. A horse could have a fabulous pedigree and be a dud, and the converse is also true. I guess I never paid too much attention to bloodlines with my TBs, it was more like okay, he can jump the moon and back, the bloodlines are irrelevant. But it seems like bloodlines are more of the differentiating factor with warmbloods/sport horses and obviously breeding prospects.

                    That being said, what bloodlines do you notice, have experience with that are consistently athletic and intelligent with little soundness issues, if such a beast exists. Now I'm also guessing, but I could be wrong, that it can be more economical to buy them younger, before they are actually put under saddle if you are looking for a high quality youngster, rather than waiting till they are 4 or 5. Of course that is a risk, hoping no injuries, proper development, housing them for 2-4 years until they are ready to go under saddle etc.
                    [i]Only great sorrow or great joy can reveal your truth.~ Kahlil Gibran
                    My current project of local food/sustainability http://community.fingerlakesfoodie.com

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                      I'll throw another into the mix for you. I usually don't like riding WB's because they don't read my mind like a TB does,... until my latest training/resale project. He's a Selles Francais/Oldenburg. You think it, he does it. So nice and light and responsive and sensitive but sane and level headed. His owner says that all the selles francais he's known are that way... this is my first experience with one under saddle and so far he's opened my eyes to what WB's can be.
                      Yes I've always loved the look of the Selle Francais, they seem like fabulous jumpers. What do you ride primarily with yours? And ditto on the sensitive, mind reading TB factor. Although sometimes I admit I could do with something a little less reactive than the TBs I seem to collect.
                      [i]Only great sorrow or great joy can reveal your truth.~ Kahlil Gibran
                      My current project of local food/sustainability http://community.fingerlakesfoodie.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To put what others have been saying clearly: Those aren't breeds, they are registries. Big difference.


                        Regardless of registry, I likely want a horse who has a significant amount of TB in its bloodlines for lightness and sensitivity. That's my preference. I have specific lines I've seen and loved in WBs and look for those - in many different registries.

                        It also depends on the breeders in your area, and quality of their horses. I like the horses bred by a SWB and a Trakehner breeder in driving distance, so if I were looking for a baby right now, there's a good chance I'd get a horse from one of those registries.

                        There's an ISR/Old mare I am in love with who is bred to a GOV Oldenburg who is Old NA approved... that baby is a strong possibility, too.

                        But it comes down to the horse in front of you, and all a horse being approved means is that it met that registry's standards - but your standards and the registry's probably don't match up exactly anyway.
                        Originally posted by Silverbridge
                        If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JenL View Post
                          Yes I've always loved the look of the Selle Francais, they seem like fabulous jumpers. What do you ride primarily with yours? And ditto on the sensitive, mind reading TB factor. Although sometimes I admit I could do with something a little less reactive than the TBs I seem to collect.
                          He's schooling 3rd level dressage at the moment and wants to do more. I love his work ethic! He's sensitive but not to a point it's obnoxious, if you know what I mean. Most of the WB's before him I've ridden reminded me more of hippos than horses.
                          I am a hot mess to a fence but he takes care of me when we play with jumping on our non dressage days (I'm a grab mane and pray kind of gal), so I can understand the fabulous jumper part. there's pictures of him on my website
                          www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                          chaque pas est fait ensemble

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Don't overlook Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport Horses.
                            Yes they CAN do dressage
                            I wasn't always a Smurf
                            Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                            "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                            The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

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                            • #15
                              My mare is registered/branded Oldenburg, however her entire sire's line (Cabaret) is Holsteiner, so I like to consider her a Holsteiner in my book, hehe. She is 13 and just a little over a year under saddle (long story, but she was passed around a lot and "too much" for a lot of people, so never was started). She's never been lame (*knocks on wood*), has great feet and doesn't need shoes. We're schooling 3rd level in a double bridle in less than a year. Easy keeper, I have her outside. Extremely smart and athletic, and knows when she's doing a good job- very hard worker!! I can't say enough good things about my horse. Also, the majority of the horses at my barn are Oldenburgs and can say they are extremely sound, athletic horses. They all get along in the arena as well.

                              Breeding has a HUGE influence on all of this, though. Good breed choices though!!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Look at the individual in front of you, not the 'breed' (or registry the papers come from). The different bloodlines can be very different in movement, build, temperment, etc. I had a flaky SF, a couple nice, but not terribly talented Oldies, and a Holst (out of a TB mare) that tried to kill me. My newest project? An OTTB that I used to gallop that likes to jump around like a Mexican jumping bean.
                                Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch
                                www.DifferentTimesEquestrianVentures.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  If I were you, I wouldn't search by breed, I'd search by age/height/price/level of training, etc. and go from there.

                                  Unless you are purchasing a mare or a stallion for breeding, or a prospect for resale, I wouldn't worry about what registry the horse was in, or even if the horse was registered.

                                  There are awesome horses in every registry and there are awesome horses that are grade.

                                  Good luck!
                                  Proud Native Texan!
                                  owned by 3 Cardigan Corgi's + 3 wonderful horses!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    There are some reasons to look at pedigree. You want 'train-ability' in any horse, no matter the breed. You also want it in the sire, dam and full/half siblings. If you want to move up the ladder, you need bloodlines who have shown there.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by oldenmare View Post
                                      Frankly, I think it is less about registry and more about pedigree.
                                      This. In all major registries save Holstein & the Trakheners, most of the same lines are used, especially in dressage and GP jumping.

                                      Holsteiners are not really known as successful GP horses; I know them more as GP jumpers.

                                      But again, I don't think of these WBs as a "breed". If I am looking for a dressage horses, I look at the horse first and the pedigree second. I could care less how the horse is registered.

                                      For instance -- my two foundation dressage broodmares are both Hanoverian registered (although one's grandsire was Oldenburg), and approved both AHS & RPSI. Even though my foals from these mares and most of the stallions I select COULD be registered Old. (either registry) or AHS, they are registered RPSI because they come very close to my place.

                                      So don't buy the breed. Buy the horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                                        He's schooling 3rd level dressage at the moment and wants to do more. I love his work ethic! He's sensitive but not to a point it's obnoxious, if you know what I mean. Most of the WB's before him I've ridden reminded me more of hippos than horses.
                                        I am a hot mess to a fence but he takes care of me when we play with jumping on our non dressage days (I'm a grab mane and pray kind of gal), so I can understand the fabulous jumper part. there's pictures of him on my website
                                        Petstorejunkie, if the horse you're talking about is the one you've listed for sale, can you please send him to me tomorrow?

                                        I dont know what he kept looking at while you were grooming him on the crossties, but his face was cracking me up. I was sold right there. Adorable.
                                        Barn rat for life

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