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"L" Graduates and "r" Judges: Who's certified, how did you do it?

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  • #61
    yes1

    yes! OH, how I wish I had thought to do that when the time was "right"








    Originally posted by Janet View Post
    To go back to the OP


    Yes, I know at least one judge who leased a horse to get her required scores.
    breeder of Mercury!

    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by MysticOakRanch View Post
      CONGRATULATIONS Schiffon!!!!!
      Doubling that! It's a big enough achievement without having to navigate the extra hoops put in front of you!! Very well done!!!!
      *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Rhiannonjk View Post

        (ARE there AA judges out there?)
        Yes. Her name escapes me right now but there is a gal in the East Bay (California) who was a trainer and "S" judge and gave up training to regain her AA status so she could compete in amateur classes at shows.

        She got a horse that she really enjoyed and wanted to be competitive, which she wasn't against pro riders.

        She still judged (judges?) and may have returned to training/pro status at this time, I do not know.
        *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

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        • Original Poster

          #64
          YES! CONGRATS Schiffon! Awesome!

          back to the OP. This is interesting. I emailed one of our schooling judges (who I like VERY much--I've also taken lessons with her on occasion)
          and this is what she had to say:
          I thought she had at the least and L certificiation...
          but she did touch on all the points that were raised in this thread!


          ****
          I do NOT have the L judge certification. You do not have to have an L judge cert to judge schooling shows. The L judge only allows you to judge open shows up through 2nd level which is why you don't see many L judges at open shows. I do have my USDF Bronze earned the Germany Big Bronze which was 2 riding exams and two oral exams by German judges.
          ****

          Please clarify!
          I do feel like the is some incorrect info...I thought and L could only judge schooling shows? no? It's not USEF cert...so no USEF shows, correct?

          ****
          Why do I not have my L certification? You have to travel to various parts of the country and attend certain seminars to even be able to sit for the L judges exam. It costs approx $2k in just seminars and books (not including travel) and I can't justify making that back in one years time... plus you have to do re-continuing ed. units to stay qualified... So from a cost justification stand point, it doesn't add up. Plus my career focus is in building good rider/horse teams, teaching the mechanics of communicating with the horse properly and also explaining to the horse how to deliver the best possible gaits.... In other words, actively working with the horse and riders, not just be a static figure behind the table. And it could really frustrate me NOT to be able to help some of these riding pairs.
          http://kaboomeventing.com/
          http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
          Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

          Comment


          • #65
            She is correct in that you don't have to be an L Graduate to judge schooling shows. Schooling shows don't really fall under any strict guide lines and it is up to the show management whether they hire an L "judge" or not.
            BUT if you are an L Graduate you can only judge schooling shows, no rated shows, because in the eyes of USEF you are not a real judge yet!
            Hoppe, Hoppe, Reiter...
            Wenn er faellt dann schreit er...

            Originally posted by mbm
            forward is like love - you can never have enough

            Comment


            • #66
              Back when I went through the "L" program (the first
              one ever offered), L graduates with distinction were
              going to be allowed to judge at USDF rated shows -
              at that time, there was such an animal - but not
              AHSA rated shows. As I went through the program,
              the requirements were made more difficult and the
              benefits decreased - there was a bit of a kerfuffle
              with the 'r' judges and the USDF show allowance was
              dropped. If I remember (this was in the 90's), we had
              2 or 3 revisions to our requirements as they tweaked
              the program.
              www.settlementfarm.us

              Comment


              • #67
                L Graduates are not judges!!! We must remember that!! Lol we were told many times in the program that we are not actually judges yet and that it really irks USEF, USDF and actual judges when graduates call themselves judges since graduates cannot actually judge anything (other than schooling shows, which anyone can judge since they are not regulated). Small "r"s can judge up to second level at rated shows. Also, judges actually do help the combinations, when the rider and trainer don't see the judge as an enemy or whatever else we like to see them as and actually take a look at the feedback

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                • #68
                  a bit of a side question: you can not be a FEI judge if you are over 55? is that true?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    mbm--I'm too lazy to look it up, but I know that's not true. I think they try to "suggest" retirement when you hit 80, like with Liz Searle, but I know she was still judging. Sonya Vracko is a phenominal great looking 79 (she proudly told me as I about fell off of my chair) and I'm not going to out anyone else, but a lot of the judges are over that age. The might be some criteria for international, but I doubt very much it's such a young age.

                    There's probably some wording making suggestions about age to deal with visions. I know I rode under one judge long gone who couldn't see the other end of the arena or hear me when I shouted I was off course, and never noted it in the test. I think there aren't too many of those left.

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                    • #70
                      Isn't General Burton in his 80s? And Jeff Ashton Moore still judges ocassionally, and he's way over 55 too. Its been a while since I saw Mary Grace Davidson judging, but she was at least mid 60s last time I saw her judge. And Peter Lert was still judging way past 55. I think most of the S and higher judges are over 55, now that I think about it?

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
                        mbm--I'm too lazy to look it up, but I know that's not true. I think they try to "suggest" retirement when you hit 80, like with Liz Searle, but I know she was still judging. Sonya Vracko is a phenominal great looking 79 (she proudly told me as I about fell off of my chair) and I'm not going to out anyone else, but a lot of the judges are over that age. The might be some criteria for international, but I doubt very much it's such a young age.

                        There's probably some wording making suggestions about age to deal with visions. I know I rode under one judge long gone who couldn't see the other end of the arena or hear me when I shouted I was off course, and never noted it in the test. I think there aren't too many of those left.
                        yeah, that is why i questioned it... it seems to me that to be a good FEI/I/O judge you would NEED to be over 55.

                        so maybe it is that you have to be at least 55 to qualify?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          found it:

                          to apply to be an FEI judge you must be under 55 (weird) but of course you can judge til forever, i guess (and yes, we NEED our old judges!)

                          http://www.usef.org/documents/licens...tsDressage.pdf

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by mbm View Post
                            a bit of a side question: you can not be a FEI judge if you are over 55? is that true?
                            It's true that FEI judges are required to retire at a certain age, but I believe it's 65.

                            None of the judges listed in the messages above sit on CDI panels. "S" is a national license, not FEI.

                            additions:
                            I googled around and found this:
                            "General Bergener has been judging former AHSA (now USEF) shows (training level to Grand Prix) and giving clinics in California, Oregon, Nevada and Arizona since 1985. No longer judging, as FEI rules require retirement at age 70, he is a very popular clinician." ... that was from his Facebook page.
                            *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

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                            • #74
                              mbm: 55 is when you have to become one. That is, if you meet the requirements and are 35, you can become an FEI judge, but if you meet the requirements and are 60 you cannot. Most current FEI judges are over 55, and I believe the FEI does not force anyone to retire at a specific age (I might not have the requirement part correct). But that is partially why it is so difficult for many professionals to consider a judging career - it takes 20 years to get to the FEI part, and you have until 55 to become a new FEI judge. That means you have to start the program at 35 at the very latest, and most top riders are beyond 35 and would not be able to become an FEI judge simply because of the timeline. That is a big enough reason for many not to pursue it. Side note: from what I have heard, the FEI is trying to encourage top riders worldwide to become judges and is trying to fastrack some without the issues of grandfathering that we saw in the past. Not sure the details, but the FEI and USEF are aware of the lack of judges coming through the ranks and are working on ways to bring more along.

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                              • #75
                                Just as a side, I just graduated from the L Program with distinction. The distinction part is not a walk in the park. Financially speaking, the two sessions were over an entire year and cost me somewhere around $14K . . . I am sitting here now with my "r" application in my hot little hand trying to figure out if I will need to take a 2nd mortgage
                                "Listen to your mind. It has a whole lot more brain cells than your heart does." - SillyHorse

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                                • #76
                                  Good luck!
                                  I am submitting my 'S' paperwork at the end of February.
                                  www.settlementfarm.us

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    First of all, I don't really get why anyone would be inclined to spend so much time and money to have the priviledge of becoming a schooling show judge. To me, judging = lost weekends, sitting for very long hours in the cold/heat, watching endless amounts of Intro tests and trying to find something to say about them, a goodly amount of people being pissed at you for not falling in love with Fluffy McBuckyPants, all for a small amount of pay.... wow. Not for me, thanks!

                                    Secondly, I don't think it's strange to ask that a person judging 2nd second be confirmed at 4th level. I've done plenty of Second Level and would not consider myself qualified to judge that level. Sure, I could muddle through, but if *I* am going to spend money to show, I would not want to ride for a judge who just barely knows how to do it herself. I would want to be judged by someone who knows where I am in the big picture.

                                    You know what I love is the schooling shows with an "L" judge where they allow tests of any level. I was at a schooling show with an L judge where Chris Hickey decided to show up and do a GP test. And the L judge is only required to have ridden as high as 2nd... imagine what that poor person must have been thinking when the shad entered the ring, LOL. (Excited, or scared shitless?) I would have loved to hear what Chris thought of his score and comments for that ride.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by whitewolfe001 View Post
                                      <snip> I would not want to ride for a judge who just barely knows how to do it herself. I would want to be judged by someone who knows where I am in the big picture.

                                      You know what I love is the schooling shows with an "L" judge where they allow tests of any level. I was at a schooling show with an L judge where Chris Hickey decided to show up and do a GP test. And the L judge is only required to have ridden as high as 2nd... imagine what that poor person must have been thinking when the shad entered the ring, LOL. (Excited, or scared shitless?) I would have loved to hear what Chris thought of his score and comments for that ride.
                                      There's a schooling show judge around here who is very popular. She hasn't done the L program but she's an FEI trainer with extensive credentials and decades of experience. A lot of people, myself included, find her comments more insightful and useful and her scores more accurate than the local L's. It's a shame there's not a system to grandfather in people like her.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        I'm envisioning an unlikely but potentially hilarious situation in which an L judge had really only ridden as far as 2nd and then found themselves in a situation where they're judging grand prix. Like, what if the person wasn't familiar with all the upper level movements? Do they teach "when in doubt, score a 6" in judge school?

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          I'm an L and have judged plenty of upper level riders, one very well known. But, I have trained and ridden my own horses through GP. I don't really judge much because it is a lot of work for little money, but do it for fun sometimes, and will get hired sometimes because people know I have at least ridden the upper level test before.

                                          There are way too many L's who have no clue or have connived their way into getting it. I wouldn't ride with one for any useful feedback. As big bay said, it's much more useful to get feedback from someone who has a clue.

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