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Is this a Knabstrupper?

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  • Is this a Knabstrupper?

    Howdy

    Take a look at this horse with Appaloosa coloring. It is in Denmark. Is it a Knabstrupper? Fabulous movement!!!

    http://www.priess-stutteri.com/defau...dsalgshest=137

    Appy trails,
    Kathy & Cadet
    Appy Trails,
    Kathy, Cadet & CCS Silinde
    member VADANoVA www.vadanova.org

  • #2
    Originally posted by baylady7 View Post
    Howdy

    Take a look at this horse with Appaloosa coloring. It is in Denmark. Is it a Knabstrupper? Fabulous movement!!!

    http://www.priess-stutteri.com/defau...dsalgshest=137

    Appy trails,
    Kathy & Cadet
    Wow, nice! Did you ask is she is registered Knabstrupper? Her Dad isn't...

    Comment


    • #3
      *Drool*


      It could be an Appaloose Sport horse. I seem to have noticed over seas that they cross Appaloosas with a more athletic breed such as a TB or WB. (I know Appaloosas are athletic but I'm just saying.)

      Comment


      • #4
        It isn't necessarily a Knabstrupp or an Appaloosa cross (especially unlikely to see Appaloosa crosses in Denmark). Knabstrupps have alot of different possible patterns, but quite a few are white with black spots.

        Many warmbloods have 'Sabino' or other color patterns that cause white patterns. Sponenberg has a picture of a whole line of Dutch Warmbloods nearly covered with white (Sabinos).

        Comment


        • #5
          On my computer it's very hard to tell, but it appear on the video as though the horse has a full white blanket on its rump. I've never heard of sabino creating that kind of marking. High whites, yes, belly spots, yes, roaning, yes-- but not a white blanket like an appoloosa would have.
          ~Veronica
          "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
          http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, as I said in the previous post, there are Sabino and other genes - there's a so called 'skunk tail' coloring that can look like that horse, but there are others too.

            the bottom line is that these white patterns are not limited to Appaloosa horses, in fact, they are present in other breeds in Europe developed both before and after Appaloosas. The Pinzgauer and other European breeds have colorations that look like Appaloosas, but are not Appaloosas and were never bred with Appaloosas.

            These color patterns pop up now and again in horses all over the world completely unrelated to Appaloosas. The color pattern has popped up in Austria and even in Russia and even further away than that.

            Comment


            • #7
              I've already said I have a difficulty seeing the coloring on my screen... but to me the mare looks solid colored with just a white blanket on her butt that fades around the edges-- not a sharp solid spot. If that's the case, that would be news to me that sabino or rabicano [skunk tail] (or any other pinto genes other than the coloring genes associates with appoloosas) could cause that kind of patterns.
              ~Veronica
              "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
              http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                I've already said I have a difficulty seeing the coloring on my screen... but to me the mare looks solid colored with just a white blanket on her butt that fades around the edges-- not a sharp solid spot. If that's the case, that would be news to me that sabino or rabicano [skunk tail] (or any other pinto genes other than the coloring genes associates with appoloosas) could cause that kind of patterns.
                I agree with you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's my opinion that that mare is carrying the LP gene. The LP gene is the gene that causes the "Appaloosa" pattern, more appropriately called the Leopard Complex.

                  Just because a horse has the LP gene, doesn't mean they automatically stem from Appaloosas. Many breeds carry the LP gene including Appaloosas, Knabstruppers, Colorado Rangerbreds, Norikers (yes, certain lines, mostly leopards and few-spots), Pony of the Americas, and certain lines of Russian and Chinese breeds.

                  My guess is that this horse is a Knabstrupper, especially since Appaloosas are rare in Denmark, and Knabs are a Danish breed. Knabstruppers are just like other warmbloods in that they allow outcrossing to other warmblood breeds, especially Trakehner and German and Danish Oldenburg. So that can explain the non-Knabstruper father; Come Back II is a Holsteiner.

                  This mare looks like she is showing the Leopard Pattern of a Snowflake with Roaning (Appaloosa Roaning, not Sabino or other roaning). I've owned an Appaloosa cross mare with almost the same exact pattern.

                  Very pretty mare. I would snatch her up in a second.

                  If you would like to learn more about Knabstrupers, look up the American Knabstrupper Association for America or the KNN for the Danish Registry.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My response? Who cares? I'll take her!
                    Here Be Dragons: My blog about venturing beyond the lower levels as a dressage amateur.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      mmmm, SPOTS!

                      I lurve spots!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DancingAppy View Post
                        It's my opinion that that mare is carrying the LP gene. The LP gene is the gene that causes the "Appaloosa" pattern, more appropriately called the Leopard Complex.

                        Just because a horse has the LP gene, doesn't mean they automatically stem from Appaloosas. Many breeds carry the LP gene including Appaloosas, Knabstruppers, Colorado Rangerbreds, Norikers (yes, certain lines, mostly leopards and few-spots), Pony of the Americas, and certain lines of Russian and Chinese breeds.

                        My guess is that this horse is a Knabstrupper, especially since Appaloosas are rare in Denmark, and Knabs are a Danish breed. Knabstruppers are just like other warmbloods in that they allow outcrossing to other warmblood breeds, especially Trakehner and German and Danish Oldenburg. So that can explain the non-Knabstruper father; Come Back II is a Holsteiner.

                        This mare looks like she is showing the Leopard Pattern of a Snowflake with Roaning (Appaloosa Roaning, not Sabino or other roaning). I've owned an Appaloosa cross mare with almost the same exact pattern.

                        Very pretty mare. I would snatch her up in a second.

                        If you would like to learn more about Knabstrupers, look up the American Knabstrupper Association for America or the KNN for the Danish Registry.
                        Very informative post!! Thank you!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Despite the fact that the ApHC seems determined (and seems to be succeeding) in turning Appaloosas into colored (and uncolored) Quarter Horses, the breed's original origins go back to Spanish horses, and the foundation horse for the Knabstrupper registry is a "Spanish mare" named Flaebenhoppen (sp?), so in truth, they probably share a connection, even if it is somewhat distant. My first two Apps, Foundation bred (Toby and Red Eagle/Old painter lines - 16 hands and 16.3 hands respectively), certainly looked nothing like QHs and were eminently UNsuitable for western pleasure. LOL Both were eventers. None of them moved as beautifully as that lovely mare, but while I think it is mostly likely that she is a Knabstrupper, there ARE Appaloosas in the UK, both straight ApHC registerable (i.e., Arab/TB or QH cross only) or Knab/Appy crosses, so the possibility of an Appy cross is not out of the question. Still, I think it most likely she is a Knabstrupper.

                          My memory is fuzzy, but aren't Noriker's drafty?? Doubt she has much if any Noriker blood.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My mother had a huge 16.3 Appy/TB cross that was an extravegant mover and very very sporthorse looking. She was nothing like the popular Quarterloosa. I don't see Knabstrupper in this mare, but who knows.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Maybe?

                              Last fall, there was a cute Knabstrupper mare for sale locally, so I did a little research on the breed.

                              I remember reading that somewhere along the line, in relatively recent past, that a number of Appaloosas were sent to Knabstrupper land, approved (?) stock to cross with native Knabstruppers because the Knabsturpper breed was becoming endangered....

                              So that there is probably not indirect, but now direct relation between american Appaloosas and Knabstruppers.....

                              What a gorgeous mare that one is!
                              Last edited by kansasgal; May. 15, 2008, 04:08 AM. Reason: sp errors
                              What's the scoop?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Auventera Two View Post
                                My mother had a huge 16.3 Appy/TB cross that was an extravegant mover and very very sporthorse looking. She was nothing like the popular Quarterloosa. I don't see Knabstrupper in this mare, but who knows.
                                Well, in Europe - and particularly in Denmark, home of the Knabstrupper - she's more likely to be a Knab or WB cross of some kind. But yes, there are some lovely NON-Quarterloosa horses out there.

                                Here's my bebe (now 4, these were taken when he was 3.5, prob. 16.1+ then, now 16.2 and still growing), and he sure ain't no Quarterloosa:

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I googled the mare, the spotted colour comes from the dam sire.

                                  61 Bee Bee
                                  9802220
                                  F: 9207758--Come Back Ii --157338 M:
                                  8203290--Henriette Thorhauge--110997 MF:
                                  7201088--Rasmus Af Damgård--102350

                                  The dam is about half Warmblood, too, and the mare's sire Come Back II is of course a very successful Holsteiner stallion that has left a great deal of good dressage horses in Denmark. So basically they're breeding Warmbloods with colour. It has nothing to do with the Appaloosa breed, the Knabstrupper is one of the older Baroque breeds and very different in conformation and movement from a Western horse. Breeders usually let you know how much Knab there's in the horse, the rest is usually some Warmblood.

                                  Info in English about the breed:
                                  http://www.knabstrupperforeningen.dk...ruphistory.htm

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    You guys got me curious, here's a sale ad for that horse...

                                    http://www.danishqualityhorses.com/d...arebeebee.html

                                    They refer to her as having a 'snow blanket' which I don't think is how you would characterize an actual white spot, like a tovero spot. I've never heard a true pinto mark referred to as a blanket (then again, I don't know if there's a transation/lexicon issue at play).
                                    ~Veronica
                                    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I agree with Moll.

                                      Knabstruppers are very baroque and that guy is anything but.

                                      I believe that Lipizzaners, which used to have spots and a lot more solid colors several centuries ago, share the same lineage as the Knabs' Spanish ancestry. Many of them have white sclera, striped hooves and mottling around the eyes and muzzle. My mare doesn't have the mottling, but she has the sclera and striped hooves.

                                      Eileen
                                      Mad Mare™ Studio
                                      Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
                                      http://MadMare.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I don't know what constitutes a knabstrupper..Ie if it can have Holstiener sire, but Come Back is Holstein (and a good one at that!).
                                        www.svhanoverians.com

                                        "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

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