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Critique my colt

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  • #61
    Judy Wardrope has some very nice articles on Functional Conformation:


    and this:http://www.jwequine.com/pdf/Conformation-Dressage.pdf

    And this is also pretty good:http://tinyurl.com/3bdzzvn pg 58

    There is a whole series of free articles available at the above site.
    Last edited by goodpony; Aug. 6, 2011, 01:04 PM. Reason: added pg #
    Redbud Ranch
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    • #62
      Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
      Conrad Schaumacher (sp?) had a video that talked about horses conformation and he was not bothered by a high tailset/flat croup if there were other good features to offset that. And measuring from the point of hip to the rump muscle, your guy has breadth.
      Besides the fact, tailset is different from hip angle. There are quite a few good horses with much flatter hip angles than I typically prefer, and this two year old doesn't have an excessively flat hip.

      I do prefer a longer hip - but I like a massive motor really pushing me. It can often end up with a horse who is less typically ammy friendly, and I'm on my second horse in a row who had a habit of terrifying people before I got him when his motor would kick in.

      I quite like this horse, and while I refuse to compare him to specific individuals in photos on this thread, I definitely preferred him to some of the other photos. I would love to play with a horse like this and work on him. I absolutely agree that he looks as if he's likely to be more naturally tight through the back, but as far as weaknesses go that's one I prefer to many of the others you can see out there. As expected given breed tendencies, he looks like he'll have to be taught to stretch down - but usually once you teach that, they learn how good it can feel and do it themselves.

      Most of all I'm impressed by how balanced he looks at an age when a horse is usually off-balance and awkward, especially from the later-developing breeds.

      I do agree about marketing toward a more general audience and not narrowing him down purely to dressage, but I think for most people's purposes he could work as a dressage horse.

      Remember that you can't see the SI joint from photos, necessarily. Experts can estimate fairly decently, but the typical layperson usually gets it wrong when they can't feel its location on their horse. This horse *may* have an SI joint farther back than ideal, but I have no idea just from the photos.
      Originally posted by Silverbridge
      If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.


      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
        He'd probably be much happier as an eventer.
        Well, I have no idea why because I wasn't watching, but he DID jump out of the round pen one day...


        • #64
          I second trying him a bit as an eventer. Most sound, reasonably proportioned horses can do the lower levels, i.e. up to Training, and thats the level most riders are at as well. Plus, he has such a pretty head,neck and shoulder, that´s what will set him apart from many other lower level eventers. Having a good mind really matters as well. Now we could take the engine from the little connemara horse and the neck and shoulder from your guy, we´d be in business


          • #65
            What I see? Myself? A horse that would have great talent in upper level dressage because he has NO PROBLEM picking up his back and elevating his front end.

            I see a flat croup but a good angle to the pelvis, in what Dr Deb describes as an 'arab triangle', wherein the croup angle (good) does not match the pelvic angle (flat), where the horse is perfectly capable of coiling his loins to collect.

            I also recognize that the majority of dressage folks will not think that this particular horse will be able to go very far in dressage.
            And that he does not look like a warmblood, and as such will not be looked at by most folks after an upper level dressage horse.

            My own opinion is not likely to be the same as the average dressage-prospect shopper, nor the average successful dressage trainer looking for a horse for a client. Y'All can think I'm wrong, and way off base. I have no trouble with that.

            I'd still be absolutely tickled pink if he showed up in my own corral- though he'd have to learn to be a cow-pony before he ever got to a dressage show.


            • #66
              I read a dressage conformation book, "Selecting the Dressage horse, conformation, movement, and temperament". In each chapter they discussed the ideal conformation and at the end gave an example of an international quality horse who was not ideal but was still successful on an international stage. Overwhelmingly giving an example of how temperament and try (along with good training) trumped a multitude of sins. I have to admit, I agree with Gestalt who said, I kind of like the op's horse more than the connemara pony.


              • #67
                i didn't post my pony as an example of the perfect dressage pony - i already mentioned he is not perfect. i also did not say he was "better" ....

                OP wanted examples of different hind ends - so i posted my guy as an example of an hind end that "I" like - that has a lot of power innate in it.

                it's fine if you don't like my pony... he is a little bit of a tank and def not light with a flashy front end

                play nice now and dont try to eat the folks that have a differing opinion than yours.


                • #68
                  I *personally* like him a lot. That shoulder is so free and his front end is flashy, paired with an elegant neck. He would clearly have to be taught to stretch down, but that's going to be true of 99% of saddlebreds, and is not an insurmountable obstacle. His hind end isn't perfect and doesn't have the power that someone looking for an FEI dressage prospect would want, but it's not bad either and the flat croup is somewhat misleading. But I am one of those people with a soft spot for saddlebreds

                  If he has a great temperament and work ethic, I'd snatch him up in a heartbeat. There are tons of people who enjoy dressage but also want to occasionally dabble in eventing, trail riding, etc. and would rather have an easy going, forgiving horse who works hard for his rider than an explosive warmblood that will fly up the levels.
                  "Winter's a good time to stay in and cuddle,
                  but put me in summer and I'll be a... happy snowman!!!"

                  Trolls be trollin'! -DH


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by mbm View Post
                    i didn't post my pony as an example of the perfect dressage pony - i already mentioned he is not perfect. i also did not say he was "better" ....

                    OP wanted examples of different hind ends - so i posted my guy as an example of an hind end that "I" like - that has a lot of power innate in it.

                    it's fine if you don't like my pony... he is a little bit of a tank and def not light with a flashy front end

                    play nice now and dont try to eat the folks that have a differing opinion than yours.
                    Sorry if you think I was trying to "eat you". Definitely was not the case. And I wasn't insinuating that you said your horse was "perfect". It's a very nice pony. My point is that the OP's horses' hindquarters are good. Many people see a flat croup or high tailset and automatically think the hindend is weak. I'm not a pro, but listening to and reading material by pro's about different weaknesses in a horses conformation and how the sum of the whole can be greater than sum of parts. If you get my meaning. After watching Schaumacher I even came up with my "screen name" Gestalt.
                    Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.


                    • #70
                      Do you have a video? A video is most helpful.


                      • #71
                        These are links to photos of Woodlander Farouche, recent winner of the 5 yr old Young Horse Championship (Dressage). That would be considered the best of the best by many; and certainly puts her in the ‘desired by BNT type of horse’ category.




                        I believe the last image is of her as a 2 or 3 yr old. Note the back (topline) and hind quarters on this horse. Rather light at this time? SI placement…hmmm? Substantial bone…hmmm?

                        I am not posting here for critique of this amazing filly, but simply to say –she did it; she can be your yardstick, a good one to compare to.

                        She has scored as high as 9’s for trot and 10’s for canter and walk, so google her videos to see what dressage movement is to look like.

                        That is what to capture in a video.

                        Note the muscling at the back of the haunch above the gaskin on the filly. THIS is one area to develop in the young SB or at least show to it’s best advantage. Believe it or not, walking (up and down hills, even on a lungeline if you have nothing better is a good way to build this up and encourage flexing of the back. (Since this horse is 2, I don’t think cantering small circles is recommended).

                        There are phases of the gaits where the back is up, the haunch appears bunched and the withers elevated. Pick those.

                        Nobody is going to have one as nice as her but you get the idea.
                        Sorry about the 2 hind hooves grounded…they weren’t, and I had pulled up a few dozen shots and it was late, at any rate this or just as the outside hind grounds is when the haunch is bunched and back flexed and withers at their highest. Very attractive.
                        Connemara’s have been wonderful sport horses, especially in the jumper arena, plenty of heart there.

                        Each to his/her own.
                        OP that is a nice colt. Don’t video him in the mud if you can help it.


                        • #72
                          With THAT trot? Dressage!! Could be an Evener since he doesn't mind mud!! haha!! (hey, any one of us who says we've never had a horse come in after a rain thats muddy, is a liar.)
                          ~Buy an OTTB, Save a Life, Gain a Forever Bond.~
                          Let's say NO to Kill Buyers


                          • #73
                            why are all these old threads being resurrected lately? its getting downright weird. LOL


                            • #74
                              I suspect the "Similar Threads" pane (below) is to blame.


                              • #75
                                Yup. Its annoying too.
                                Barn rat for life


                                • #76
                                  It can be a bit annoying I agree, but I'm actually really glad this was re-opened... I had missed this thread and the articles that goodpony linked... I bought a yearling about two months ago... When you have a baby and they're constantly going through ugly stages it's really easy to start doubting yourself... When I bought him I really just looked at the overall picture and how he used himself but the Warmbloods Today article was a nice tool to pick him apart a bit. It turns out I have a damn good eye as he has a pretty damn ideal build according the that article, woo hoo!