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which vets have proved rollkur is damaging?

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  • which vets have proved rollkur is damaging?

    I am doing a paper, and I would like to know which vets have proved that rollkur is damaging to the horse. also any helpful websites with objective information about rollkur would be appreciated.

    Thanks!

    (not trying to start a rant, so please only post the vets which have proved that rollkur is damaging and/or helpful websites)

  • #2
    Good luck with that. I'm not aware of any definitive studies that have been done. And good luck finding "objective" info on the web. EVERYTHING has an agenda.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ohhhh boy.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        again please resist the urge to post unless you have helpful information
        Thanks

        DDQ

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
          Good luck with that. I'm not aware of any definitive studies that have been done. And good luck finding "objective" info on the web. EVERYTHING has an agenda.
          This is pretty helpful information.

          I believe there have been some "see, it's harmful!" type of studies/reports which were never actual proof. I don't believe there are any true, peer-reviewed, accepted studies showing it to be harmful.


          I may not *like* rollkur, but I still don't believe any of the "proof" out there. (And with a quick google I didn't come up with the referenced for you, but you may be able to find some with more googling time. Gerd Heuschmann is a good place to start.)
          Originally posted by Silverbridge
          If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

          Comment


          • #6
            Start with Dr. Gerd Heuschmann's book "Tug of War: Classical vs 'Modern' Dressage".

            Comment


            • #7
              Gerd's book is excellent and so is his follow up video.
              Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
              "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

              Comment


              • #8
                ... and this paper would be for what class? Please enlighten me before I give out more information.
                Siegi Belz
                www.stalleuropa.com
                2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by schneidepc View Post
                  Start with Dr. Gerd Heuschmann's book "Tug of War: Classical vs 'Modern' Dressage".
                  Originally posted by ise@ssl View Post
                  Gerd's book is excellent and so is his follow up video.
                  Too bad he doesn't practice what he preaches...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Have you tried PubMed? There are several published studies on the subject. "Proved" is a highly subjective word, anyway. You must look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions.
                    My Work In Progress...

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
                      ... and this paper would be for what class? Please enlighten me before I give out more information.
                      It is for my highschool English class.
                      Last edited by DutchDressageQueen; Aug. 2, 2011, 04:50 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        I will google Dr. Gerd Heuschmann and see what comes up

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you want to be objective, you should also look at Anky's clinics on youtube related to hyperflexion. Low Deep and round training technique.

                          Sjef Jensenn of course.

                          Sustainable dressage has good articles : http://www.sustainabledressage.net/rollkur/schrijer.php

                          Pia Munck of scandinavian dressage website/blog.

                          Also look at the western folks.

                          Dr. Heuschmann is quite controversial.

                          Look at the people in Allege Ideal.

                          But why did you choose that subject?? This is a really tough one and I don't think 'non-horsey' folks will understand what you'll be talking about...

                          Good luck!
                          ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                          Originally posted by LauraKY
                          I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                          HORSING mobile training app

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
                            If you want to be objective, you should also look at Anky's clinics on youtube related to hyperflexion. Low Deep and round training technique.

                            Sjef Jensenn of course.

                            Sustainable dressage has good articles : http://www.sustainabledressage.net/rollkur/schrijer.php

                            Pia Munck of scandinavian dressage website/blog.

                            Also look at the western folks.

                            Dr. Heuschmann is quite controversial.

                            Look at the people in Allege Ideal.

                            But why did you choose that subject?? This is a really tough one and I don't think 'non-horsey' folks will understand what you'll be talking about...

                            Good luck!
                            Thanks for all the suggestions!

                            I am doing it on Rollkur because I would also like to learn more about it. (Of course I am including pictures and videos) so my teacher will know what I am talking about.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Gerd's book is excellent and so is his follow up video


                              Excellent in what way? The guy quotes books and systems he has clearly never read/understood and he was photographed riding last year in a way that looks worse than any picture in his book.

                              Rollkur is defined by the FEI as training low, deep and round USEING EXCESSIVE FORCE. Obviously training in this way by this definition would be harmful (see the recent reining video posted by EPONA.TV).

                              However, it is important to note that riding in RK (according to the above definition) is not the same as riding a supple, relaxed horse low, deep and round (though Gerd and such people clearly make no distinction).

                              ,
                              www.svhanoverians.com

                              "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                http://www.admon.com/products/profes...ise-endoscope/

                                Those who claim to investigate Rolkur have not used this piece of equipment. I have spoken to the company and they say it can by used with a bit and will not interfere with the bit.

                                $12,000.00 seems like a small price to pay if a vet 'really' wanted to see if there was compression of the air way in rolkur.

                                Also there is electronic sensors that can be placed on the surface of the skin to show tension in the muscles.
                                Also there there are blood tests that can demonstrate the changes in the structure of blood during rolkur, including the amount of oxygen in the blood.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Google Dr Andrew McLean Rollkur. He was one of the ones that was on the panel that investigated Rollkur for the FEI.

                                  I went to a seminar of his which discussed Rollkur quite intensively and there was lots of very interesting information. I am sure he published some papers on the effects of Rollkur and Learned Helplessness as a result of it.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Recently two FEI veterinarians have weighed in on rollkur in the context of FEI reining. Maybe contact them through the FEI?

                                    Vet Leo Jeffcott

                                    http://epona.tv/uk/news/show/artikel...kur/?tx_ttnews[backPid]=388&cHash=2a51608d5b245572a1624b925f10a0f2

                                    Vet Dr. Peter F. Cronau

                                    http://epona.tv/uk/news/show/artikel...eos/?tx_ttnews[backPid]=388&cHash=25264cedd208e2e38dae4ea5267c08bd

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Studies are very difficult to set up and even more difficult to interpret. They test very localized systems. The effect of neck position on weighting the hind quarters for instance. This study is widely quoted in support of deep riding, but it only measured transfer of weight. It did not measure effects on breathing, sight, pressure on the bursa of the joints, stress, build in muscles mass, etc.. Use the Google Scholar feature for publications in peer reviewed science journals. You'll be amazed at the broad, generalizations made by even good scientists from very limited, very specific data.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        BTW, I haven't been able to find any studies on the biomechanics of movements used in western disciplines. If there are any out there please point me to them. I need that information.

                                        Comment

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