• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Bad Footing at U.S. and Canadian Dressage Shows?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bad Footing at U.S. and Canadian Dressage Shows?

    Looks like this is the latest incident in a growing list of complaints about bad footing at American and Canadian shows. Your experiences?

    http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=11847
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

  • #2
    Footing at Pebble Beach CDI

    Looks like the PSG CDI horses managed OK,

    http://www.foxvillage.com/FVDShowRes...px?sh=347&cl=1

    Theresa

    Comment


    • #3
      I have showed in some not so nice footing, but it was never so bad that I had to withdraw from the show.

      Comment


      • #4
        I talked with a Pebble Beach competitor yesterday evening and he is usually the last person to complain. However, he did mention that the footing was just awful!
        Siegi Belz
        www.stalleuropa.com
        2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
        Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

        Comment


        • #5
          Another Perspective

          This was truly bad footing. Sand was added to an un-prepared base (parking lot from what I heard) for some of the arenas, including the CDI arena. The poor man brought in to maintain the footing worked really hard to fix it. By Sunday, the "CDI" arena wasn't too horrible, but the footing in a couple of the open show arenas and warmups hasn't been discussed much. It was really deep and received minimal work during the show. I heard that some horses had swollen legs after schooling/showing. 96 rides were scratched durig the four days, not counting CDI competitors who withdrew. There's no way of knowing how many were scratched due to tissue injuries, but ALL horses .... training through FEI .... deserve good footing. This was the worst I've seen.
          Last edited by DressageDivaJAWs; Jul. 11, 2011, 10:11 AM. Reason: Improved phrasing

          Comment


          • #6
            I wasn't at Pebble Beach this year but have been in the past.
            The footing in the outside rings was deep with large clumps throughout, is if a deep plow had just gone over it.
            The arenas were set up specifically for the show, so these were not normally used dressage rings. It was a bit difficult to ride in and not good by any means, but at the time, not bad enough to scratch.

            However it was a surprising to me that a show of that caliber and cost, was not up to par. I support the riders for withdrawing and not tolerating poor conditions.
            It's long overdue at many shows.

            Pebble Beach Equestrian Center is in a beautiful location, and at venue with a proud history of hosting shows...the hunter/jumpers have a few big shows there with much success.

            Comment


            • #7
              Facilities have got to start doing better when it comes to footing. Our equine partners deserve it.

              If I have any doubts over the footing, I will scratch from the show. I learned my lesson last year. There were a few shows where I could NOT even canter my horse in the warmup as the footing was "soup" and he just was not comfortable with how slippery it was underneath. The first show, we pushed on through, but the other show at the same facility, I scrached classes, it wasn't worth it. Heck, these were how my boots looked after one ride at a show:

              http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4781546_n.jpg

              Comment


              • #8
                Um, yeah, well, as long as it isn't truly dangerous. We seem to forget that people used to do Olympic tests in grass rings.
                "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah, but I think what is being addressed here is footing that is too deep...and that has the easy potential to cause long term damage (soft tissue) fast.

                  I am sure there are some who would complain about riding on grass, I would be far more happy to do that then to ride on the too-deep footing that seems to be happening all over the place.

                  I had serious problems with it at the NJ Horse Park during the Jersey Fresh 3-day Event...it was absolute SOUP after moderate rains the night before. This was in the schooling ring and one of the competition dressage rings. The other main dressage ring was marginally better except in a few places. The NJ Memorial Day CDI was held there a few weeks later and I competed in that also. The footing in the lower level rings was ok, but we also had not had rain. I heard there were complaints in the main CDI arena and rightfully so.

                  Venues hosting events should not have footing that is too deep...this isn't reining. I don't mean the difference between jumping rings and dressage rings...I mean 6 plus inches of slop, slippery nastiness. And even when that much depth is dry, it's still dangerous, bad footing for your horses' ligaments and tendons.

                  Hard grass footing could cause bruising, sore feet, or the occasional strain if a horse slipped. What it would cause is less expressive gaits, etc. Barring that strain, recovery of a few weeks for a bruised sole max. Too deep footing can easily cause tendons, ligaments, strains and tears...one or more structures can easily be involved. Now you're talking 2-18 months recovery and rehab depending on the issue. Deep footing is unacceptable!!

                  ETA: I rode in the deep wet footing with my young horse in the competition ring and the one warmup after rejecting the main warmup. I would have withdrawn my mare if the footing was like that on the Dressage show day (she's had 2 soft tissue injuries)...and I guarantee that you would have seen a ton of withdrawals if the footing had been wet at the CDI there too.
                  Last edited by echodecker; Jul. 11, 2011, 09:47 PM. Reason: Added info about my mare
                  TPR!
                  Thoroughbred Placement Resources, Inc
                  www.goodhorse.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by echodecker View Post
                    Deep footing is unacceptable!!
                    yes, any any footing that is very slippery,(or deep like you said) and may cause harm to your horse is unacceptable. Never risk your horse's health for a competition. no matter how big or small.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by echodecker View Post
                      .

                      I had serious problems with it at the NJ Horse Park during the Jersey Fresh 3-day Event...it was absolute SOUP after moderate rains the night before. This was in the schooling ring and one of the competition dressage rings. The other main dressage ring was marginally better except in a few places. The NJ Memorial Day CDI was held there a few weeks later and I competed in that also. The footing in the lower level rings was ok, but we also had not had rain. I heard there were complaints in the main CDI arena and rightfully so.

                      Venues hosting events should not have footing that is too deep...this isn't reining. I don't mean the difference between jumping rings and dressage rings...I mean 6 plus inches of slop, slippery nastiness. And even when that much depth is dry, it's still dangerous, bad footing for your horses' ligaments and tendons.
                      I was just at the NJ Horse Park for a H/J show.
                      It rained heavily two nights and the footing held up very well.
                      I doubt anyone scratched from the H/J show.
                      Much for potential for problems jumping than doing a dressage test yet nobody complained.
                      Fan of Sea Accounts

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It doesn't surprise me that the one person who didn't withdraw is a former eventer.

                        I don't know anything about her training methods beyond what I've seen in the warmups at shows, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Strauss gets some conditioning in deeper footing. Regularly working at slower speeds in deep footing helps the soft tissues build up - as someone who rides in washes (in AZ we have deep sand washes for runoff from water in monsoons) to help condition my horse's legs, I wouldn't necessarily avoid riding in something due to deep footing. If it felt slippery in the way my horse was handling himself? Yes, certainly I would scratch.

                        I am surprised to hear that kind of footing would be used given how excellent the footing is in many less important shows I have attended. I don't think it's really acceptable to have such lousy footing in the ring or warmups when horses are compared based upon scores around the world; lousy footing certainly affects movement even if a horse is able to handle it without injury. That's definitely the lowest score I know of Cyndi and Strauss getting this year (without tracking their entire scoring history) and it's not surprising that it would be.
                        Originally posted by Silverbridge
                        If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So what happens now to the management of the Pebble Beach show ?
                          Do USEF and USDF have any response ? (I think I already know the answer, but I thought I'd ask anyway, just in case).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've really only noticed a few venues with bad footing. Never had to withdraw. Is this really a growing problem? Or just the omnipresent problem?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mardi View Post
                              I wasn't at Pebble Beach this year but have been in the past.
                              The footing in the outside rings was deep with large clumps throughout, is if a deep plow had just gone over it.
                              The arenas were set up specifically for the show, so these were not normally used dressage rings. It was a bit difficult to ride in and not good by any means, but at the time, not bad enough to scratch.

                              However it was a surprising to me that a show of that caliber and cost, was not up to par. I support the riders for withdrawing and not tolerating poor conditions.
                              It's long overdue at many shows.

                              Pebble Beach Equestrian Center is in a beautiful location, and at venue with a proud history of hosting shows...the hunter/jumpers have a few big shows there with much success.
                              I agree, Pebble Beach is such a great venue! Seems like Pebble Beach Management has hired the wrong contractor to re-do the arenas. If the footing is not perfect for the dressage riders it will definitely too deep and shifting too much for the jumpers.
                              Most show facilities in California are in urgent need of professional help to provide safe arena footings to the exhibitors. As a matter of fact, bad footing is the main reason
                              for me to withdraw from horse competition. The entry fees are high and the least you can expect as an exhibitor is perfect arena footing. There is one Cal company who installed our arena footing 4 years ago and it is still excellent.
                              You might want to check www.footingsolutionsusa.com
                              Hopefully Show places and Management will learn from the incident.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Most of the footing issues I've faced are at one-ring small shows (but recognized). Usually the issue is deepness and "dead" footing. I have never filled out an Evaluation Form however, because frankly I need some of these smaller shows in my area to get enough shows in for year end. I don't want them just throwing up their hands and saying FORGET IT if they start getting pressure. However, I wish there were, and maybe there is, guidelines to show management about how often to drag these rings depending on how many rides there are. I hate being the last to go in to a ring that hasn't been drug since before the first test of the day.

                                BTW, recently did the NJHP summer show and I have to say I kind of remember the footing being better. It had not rained, so I didn't have a soup issue but I just always remembered it being.... better. I guess like everything else footing breaks down and who knows what the extremes in temperatures do to footing (as I'm no expert) over the seasons. I've had great shows there in the fall. Summer -- not so good.
                                "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.” ~Sir Winston Churchill

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Many times the warm up footing sucks - deep sand. Instead I warm up on the road, grass, etc... not always producing the best results BUT keeps horse sound.

                                  A few years ago a recognized show had an accident the night before, and their indoor arena flooded. When I asked if they could use the tractor to at least even out the footing before I went they told me no. And although I won the class, and the lady I asked to work on the footing stated "she got a 7 on her trot extensions, I don't know why she complained" , I had to CONSERVATIVELY ride (i.e. hold back my horse) the extensions since I was scared to death she would injure herself (you could hear the sucking sounds as she moved in the arena).

                                  She probably would have fainted if I could have ridden the extensions the way I wanted to (last time I was there I scored a 9 on that extension).
                                  Now in Kentucky

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Good footing is of paramount importance to long term soundness, both of body and mind. It helps with rider and horse confidence. Good quote: "great footing makes veterinarians poor".

                                    There is no way FEI horses should be asked to do zig zags, pirouettes, piaffe and extensions (etc) in poor footing. Perhaps walk trot and canter are possible to do safely, but even those basics are difficult to show with correct impulsion, bend balance and throughness if the horse and rider are struggling with footing. Can you imagine a dancer doing Swan Lake on a bumpy field????

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Footing is always excellent at the Caledon Equestrian Park in Palgrave, ON.
                                      I have ridden there in soup and it isn't slippery.
                                      Last show was hot and dry - every break all the rings are watered and dragged. Competition and schooling rings. I can't say enough nice things about how great the footing is there and how well organized the shows are. When choosing shows for the year this is why I go there and not to other shows with a similar traveling distance.
                                      Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X