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Dressage Test Diagrams?

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  • #21
    Wait, they have equitests for my android now?

    I really like it on my iPad.


    • #22
      Originally posted by AlterBy View Post

      Anyway, I don't really understand the big need of such diagram.
      Dressage is all about circles and diagonals and doing things at precise letters... I've never used it.

      And it is not USeF fault if they now have to deal with copyrights.
      As you move up the levels dressage becomes a whole heck of a lot more than "circles and diagonals"! Some people like myself are visual learners and need to see the road map for a test.


      • #23
        Originally posted by JLR1 View Post
        As you move up the levels dressage becomes a whole heck of a lot more than "circles and diagonals"! Some people like myself are visual learners and need to see the road map for a test.
        Well, if it took you 2 yrs to answer to my post, I can understand you have problems understanding your dressage test.

        ETA: I still think the same. Geometry, letter to letter : you can do it at home. No need to pay for that.

        Why do we pay our trainer then? Ask your trainer to draw the movement for you!


        • #24
          Just for general info and following the theme of this long abandoned thread here is a letter I sent to a few people on the USEF dressage committee. ( sorry its a bit long )

          The gist of it is that dressage tests should be available for non commercial uses as a service to dressage members in diagram (and other ) formats.
          At present members have to pay commercial companies for these with up to 85% going to the companies and only a portion of the remainder going to promote dressage.

          For years the USEF allowed for products based on the national dressage tests to be used on a non commercial and educational basis for a nominal fee ( $50 per year ).
          The rational for this I presume was that the tests are mandatory for competitive dressage members and that charging for them would be against members interest. This was discontinued with the last set of tests.

          If Test based products are provided by a third party only a small percentage of the money is returned to the USEF and then only a percentage of that is used for the benefit of dressage members. In this way the benefits to members of providing the tests for free far out way the benefits derived from selling them.

          Diagrams of the tests are arguably nearly as important for learning as the written tests . Many people learn visually and not by reading.

          arguments for charging for the use of dressage tests

          1) Dressage members should pay a price to cover the administration costs of the dressage writing committee.
          2) The USEF has a duty to maximize revenue from all resources.
          3) Diagrams/Audio tracks/videos/yearbooks/club publications etc. of Dressage tests are not fundamental to the sport and so could attract an extra payment without disadvantage to members .
          4) The USEF has a responsibility to monitor the use of the dressage tests and does so through licensing at a cost.
          5) Times are tough and the USEF needs the royalty money irrespective of the cost to members.

          For reference the USEF royalty requirements are :

          arguments against charging more than a nominal sum for educational dressage test usage :

          1) The tests are a monopoly and are mandatory for competitive dressage members and many need to see the movements rather than just read descriptions of them.
          2) Diagrams/videos/audio tracks utilizing the tests provide useful educational aids to the members of the USEF.
          3) The tests themselves are drafted by volunteers without pay and it is exploitative to charge for them.
          4) Diagrams are invaluable educational aids to those that learn visually.
          5) Caller sheets are invaluable for helping people call the tests. ( in many case parents/spouses not familiar with dressage terms and under stress ! )
          6) Diagrams of tests encourage young people to take an interest in dressage by making the tests more user friendly, and this should not be discouraged by making them pay a commercial fee.
          7) Only a small amount paid by members is returned to the USEF compared to the amounts charged to members by commercial licensees - to the overall detriment of its members .
          8) It is unfair on dressage members that they should have to contribute more than other members to the USEF, assuming the money received from test licensing goes into the general revenue account. ( there is an argument that if the tests are to be charged for then the USDF would be the more appropriate body to issue and license them )
          9) There is increasing debate about non profit sporting bodies and commercialism especially regarding brand licensing. Sporting bodies should be more concerned with governing the sport and looking after their members interests and less concerned with commercial/marketing affairs.
          10) The USEF already gets a sizable contribution to the cost of administration of the test committee by way of sales to foreign Equine Federations ( @ $17,000 each for the set )

          argument for making them available for free for non commercial usage :

          1) The USEF being a non profit organisation has a duty to provide a service to its members. Allowing educational use of the dressage tests is a direct benefit to members.
          2) The small amount of loss resulting from this is more than compensated by the monetary benefit to members. (e.g some commercial companies may not want to produce their own products if a similar product is available for free, or they may want to pay the USEF a reduced amount. )
          3) The educational benefits are in keeping with the aims of the USEF to encourage the ‘ grass roots’ of the sport in addition to encouraging young people to participate via the Pony club etc.
          (There is an argument that USEF should itself commission authorized diagrams to go with the written tests and publish these for free on their website as an educational resource for its members )
          4) Many local clubs publish the tests in their news letters and Omnibus publications as a service to their members and there is no justification for the USEF charging for this.
          5) Many commercial enterprises will continue to offer products based on the dressage tests and will be willing to pay a commercial license for these. ( BTW the USEF obviously should not grant any company a monopoly if it is against their members interest )
          6)The USEF is a ‘public subscription’ organization and should be very careful that its commercial operations are run for the benefit of its members and not at the expense of its members.
          7) It is exploitative to have members charged additional money for work done voluntarily for the good of the sport.

          Furthermore the Pony club was an active user of my free diagram service and no doubt it helped to encourage more youthful participation in dressage from people who can ill afford inflated prices for their test diagrams. I think the grass roots of any sport are its life blood and should be nurtured rather than penalized. This surely should be one of the fundamental aims of the USEF.

          I understand that the dressage test diagrams are only a small matter and one that probably has insignificant effect on the overall USEF budget and is of little interest to most of the board members and staff. However the test policy is indicative of a culture leaning away from the aims of the organisation and towards more commercialization and monetization of resources at the expense of its members rather than for their benefit. (Additionally as an aside the USEF should discourage marketing ploys on its website like requiring registration before non sensitive information is made available).

          Providing free access to the dressage tests is one of the most economic ways of giving a valuable service to a large part of the USEF dressage membership. In addition in the case of diagrams it would provide encouragement to people thinking of joining the sport by showing clearly and without expense the geometries of the tests.

          There is always a lot of discussion and attention given to the elite section of the sport but the fact remains that by far in a way the majority of members and funds are from the grass roots ( who incidentally are the basis for the USEF public subscription tax position). It is from this this section that the elite develops and it is this section that deserves nurturing rather than exploiting (especially in poor economic times.)

          I hope you have been able to take the time ( sorry its so long !) to read this letter. I do not expect much of a result ( it seems people are powerless against marketing/commercial departments ) but it is worthwhile sometimes to raise a point that ( I think ) has some merit.

          I wonder if you would be so kind as to comment on the above I do think it is important (in a minor way) and I am intending to send this letter to some others on the dressage committee etc. to see if there was any consensus's of agreement ( or otherwise )

          Kind regards,

          Nick Stanford

          (ps I should declare my interest : I am the editor of The Dressage Directory : a totally non commercial site funded and maintained by myself and from time to time it provides free dressage diagrams such as this one Australian Preparatory Diagram )



          • #25
            An app has to be developed, it costs $$, we dont 'need them', we want them. Instead FOR FREE ACCESS, we can just print the test ou), draw the movements on the open spaces and laminate for cents. If we need to have the movements drawn out, do it. For years some have done that. That said, almost all tests are virtually mirror images with a few little differences (and they can be read in any case). I blow them up and put them on arena walls for students. Imho much ado.
            I.D.E.A. yoda


            • #26
              Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
              An app has to be developed, it costs $$, we dont 'need them', we want them. Instead FOR FREE ACCESS, we can just print the test ou), draw the movements on the open spaces and laminate for cents. If we need to have the movements drawn out, do it. For years some have done that. That said, almost all tests are virtually mirror images with a few little differences (and they can be read in any case). I blow them up and put them on arena walls for students. Imho much ado.

              I think thats a fair comment. There are arguments either way. Maybe DIY is the way to go....


              • #27
                For nine bucks to get numerous tests on to my iPhone, with some sort of animation included, I really don't consider it "expense" or $. It is 3% of most smart phones, less than half of the tip I give to my massage therapist, and about the same amount for one lunch. By the way, I'd be damned if I am wasting my $135 per lesson + 6 hours of gas + overnight stalls + hotels just to make my trainer draw that diagram for me. Our time (hers and mine) can be better spent learning how to ride.


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                  Our time (hers and mine) can be better spent learning how to ride.
                  Learning to ride the test is part of learning how to ride.
                  Maybe not you, but if a rider struggles with movements in a test, it should be addressed by the trainer in a lesson.
                  If the trainer has beginner riders, he could already have diagrams ready for his students
                  to study. It's not something that takes time to draw.
                  ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                  Originally posted by LauraKY
                  I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                  HORSING mobile training app


                  • #29
                    Of course a trainer should teach a student how to ride a pattern. Learning how to ride, and how to ride the patterns or movements, is part of taking lessons, but it is different from learning "what" the pattern is.

                    Those visual diagrams teach you what patterns and sequence of patterns you are supposed to ride. It does not teach you how to ride them. They are for lessons. But if you don't know what patterns you should be riding to begin with, you end up using your trainer's and your time learning "what" it is, instead of "how". Some people don't mind spending money and time in learning "what" but not me. I will be horrified if I make my trainer spend any second drawing diagram to show me something I can easily look up on a piece of paper (or on iPhone).


                    • #30
                      I'm embarrassingly old-fashioned for my relatively young age: I walk/trot/canter my tests in the barn aisles on foot. Yes, I look ridiculous. Yes, it gives people pause when they see me prancing. Yes, my horses judge me. Harshly.

                      But I know my tests, I know where I'm going to have to apply rebalancing aids, and it's gotten me some pretty good scores in my day. Harrumph.

                      Some food-for-thought for the non-visual learners out there.