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Is it crazy or an investment?

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  • Is it crazy or an investment?

    I have been offered the opportunity to co-own a talented flashy young horse that could make it to young riders. This would be instead of part-boarding less talented horses which I've been doing.

    If I had the money I would've done it by now. However I would need a loan to purchase half, and I'd have to work insane hours on top of school to afford it's payments. Down the road if we could get to young riders I may consider selling and could hopefully get back some money.

    It isn't about the money for me. I know I can get the time and make the payments, but it will be really tight. I like that I would work my way to young riders, not buy into it.

    Recommend sticking with part-boarding or co own a super horse? Why? Which will make me a better rider? Thanks

  • #2
    Crazy to borrow money to buy any horse! Horses get hurt way too easily! And I would be wary of co-owning anything without a very professional, airtight written agreement that spells out pretty much every contingency.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by toesforward View Post
      I have been offered the opportunity to co-own a talented flashy young horse that could make it to young riders. This would be instead of part-boarding less talented horses which I've been doing.

      If I had the money I would've done it by now. However I would need a loan to purchase half, and I'd have to work insane hours on top of school to afford it's payments. Down the road if we could get to young riders I may consider selling and could hopefully get back some money.

      It isn't about the money for me. I know I can get the time and make the payments, but it will be really tight. I like that I would work my way to young riders, not buy into it.

      Recommend sticking with part-boarding or co own a super horse? Why? Which will make me a better rider? Thanks
      Crazy.

      Finish school, get a good job, and then you can afford flash without taking on debt.
      2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

      A helmet saved my life.

      Comment


      • #4
        Horses are not an investment. Very rarely do they "pay off".

        Ask yourself if you would still do it, if the horse ended up lame and or worthless tomorrow. If you would, then go for it, but never expect to make your borrowed money back.

        Also, if you are going to have to work crazy hours to afford the horse, when will you have time to ride and train it? Where will the money come from to make it to the shows?

        Find out how much loss of use insurance would be, and consider that into the equation.
        APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

        Comment


        • #5
          Horses are incredibly fragile creatures. As the previous poster stated they are a horrid investment, if you still choose to proceed pay the hundreds of dollars to have a intense pre-purchase done. If you plan to re-sell it this is a must.

          Comment


          • #6
            Crazy. Ride horses you can afford to ride—you'll learn just as much, and your stress level will be WAY lower.
            My ears hear a symphony of two mules, trains, and rain. The best is always yet to come, that's what they explained to me. —Bob Dylan

            Fenway Bartholomule ♥ Arrietty G. Teaspoon Brays Of Our Lives

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Thanks for the reply's all.

              I get what everyone is saying, especially about the injuries and loans. I think I worded it wrong. It is definitely not an investment of money. I expect to loose money. A lot. It is an investment of riding experience and the loan is not 'big.' it is relatively small and would be paid back within the year.

              Time wise I work very similar hours for part-boarding a horse, and still ride at least 5 days a week. I don't want to spend my life in what if it gets hurt. Every horse is like that, even the ones you can afford. Thank you for the ideas though. Definitely will consider them carefully.

              Comment


              • #8
                Unfortunately, with horses, the issue is not "if" they get hurt. It is "when" they get hurt and how badly they get hurt. As long as you have enough money saved to pay $10,000 for colic surgery or EPM medication or 6 months of stall rest with $250 corrective shoeing every month for rehabbing a suspensory injury, you should consider the new horse. If you don't have that kind of reserves, I wouldn't think of buying the horse. Health insurance for horses often finds a way to avoid paying for catastrophic illnesses and injuries because of some pre-existing condition that you didn't even know about. Having to put a horse down or watch them suffer because you can't afford care is not your goal.

                Could you instead finish college a year early and then take a gap year to train a young horse to the YR level? It is better to own the horse yourself rather than being at the whim of a partner whose goals, interests, and financial contributions may not be what you are looking for.

                Good luck.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Crazy....

                  A nice horse doesnt have to be expensive, sometimes you get lucky or creative, and you can find a good horse for little money. Or if you are a good rider, for free....
                  Example, I couldn't afford a nice, quality horse either, so I bred my own. Free leased an injured PSG mare and traded board for training young horses. My horse has cost me $1500 all together, and yes, some of my time training other people's horses, but I needed/wanted something to ride in the meantime anyways

                  Getting to YR isn't cheap either.... Shows are expensive, so are trailers, trucks, boarding and lessons.

                  Where are you located?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think you'd be better off taking the money you would have spent on the loan payments and using it for training/lessons on the less talented horses you currently have. Better chance of developing yourself as a truly better rider this way.

                    Plus, when co-owning anything, lots of issues (and stress) can come from it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Baaaaaaaad, bad idea.

                      I say this having watched plenty of super expensive, super talented horses get hurt and never come back the same way, or be sooooo close to the riders sought-after goal/achievement, and then get hurt. Part-owning only makes that situation more complicated.

                      Hear me out; I'm not saying we should live in a state of terror that our critters might get injured, I'm just saying that part ownership would make that scenario a heck of a lot more complicated.

                      Not to mention, getting to YRs is wicked expensive and time consuming. The only people I know who've made it or even got close graduated high school then went straight to a working student position and either did college online, or put it on the back burner. Jobs went on the back burner as well when they went to be a working student, because they'd either teach or get paid for extra stuff they did for boarders etc.

                      Are you actively training with someone? If so, set up a time when you two can meet and discuss your goals and life right now, along with this potential new horse. Write them out on a big white board or a sheet of paper as well, so you can see them. I'm about to have to do this *again*, because my life tends to change rapidly and drastically.

                      Whatever route you choose, best of luck to you and keep up posted
                      Trying a life outside of FEI tents and hotel rooms.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Plus, when co-owning anything, lots of issues (and stress) can come from it.[/QUOTE]

                        THIS! And it's perhaps the most important of the points.

                        And as others said: I'm not a believer in borrowing money to buy a horse - unless you're waiting for some kind of investment security (like a CD) to mature in a couple months to pay it off!
                        We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You're first mistake was to use the words "horses" and "investment" in the same sentence. But now that I've been able to stop laughing, wipe the tears from my cheeks and catch my breath...

                          I'm only teasing. I 'think' what you are saying is that you would be redirecting money already spent on part board? Is that true? If you can honestly say the expense is really no different than the part board and if it is truly a small loan (1k or under) and you also have the means and fortitude to pay an equine attorney to write up a solid contract with the co owner (NO EXCEPTION ON THIS PART) and you can split the cost of major medical/mortality insurance then what the hell. Go for it. You only live once.

                          If all of the above aren't true-then probably not a good idea - wait until you are done with school and then see if you are interested in an arrangement like this. When you can afford it.

                          The scenario I am afraid you are walking into - being as cynical as I am-is that a breeder whom is too cheap to promote their own horse which is currently untrained and unsellable in the current market has convinced you to fork over borrowed money in return for 1/2ownership, your half of the board will be paid to the breeder who will keep the horse on their property and therefore have you paying all real expenses and who will then get you to train the horse for free to the best of your ability - which may or may not be good enough. I envision that this breeder will either be ready to sell before or after you but not in partnership with you or in a way that is to the benefit of both of you and in the end the breeder will have made out with slave labor, a trained or partially trained horse and a profit while you will have spent time, money,blood, sweat and tears. Also, if this horse gets to the point of competing,half owner probably will not have the requisite half funds to campaign said horse leaving you holding the bag if you want to follow your dream.

                          Tell the truth - what is the true scenario which offers you such a deal for half ownership? Who is in a bad financial position and trying to spread their liability? How capable are they of bringing this horse along? How can you get stuck holding the bag?What happens if you disagree on a course of action? What if your partner (or you) loses the ability to pay the bills for 6 months?

                          People don't offer half ownership unless they need someone with deep pockets.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Thank you guys for the sensible and very true answers. I guess it sounds fishy, and I totally agree that horses get injured quickly, but at this point I see it as a way for me to achieve a goal.

                            Background: I put a lot of work in part-boarded horse, brought it back after he had a bunch of time off, learned on him as well, owner decides to move him away, and likely sell him down the road. I admit I learned a lot with him, but I feel like I'm losing a lot of what I put in him. Worried that future part-boards would result in horse moving on, and me being horseless. I will learn a lot still

                            This young horse is 5, so not that young. It has been cliniced with FEI judges and shown at high status shows with 62% and higher results. It is not a typical situation, my trainer (who I trust very much) is selling me her half as she was co-owner b/c she is training him, and rather than the owner paying her, she co-owns him. the other owner was originally planning on selling all. This owner is very busy and feels to old and has not enough time to work with a young horse. We would split things very equally. I trust these people and have no fear of being taken advantage of.

                            Thanks again guys.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Anything that eats, can get sick, can get hurt, can die....is never an investment.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by sketcher View Post
                                I'm only teasing. I 'think' what you are saying is that you would be redirecting money already spent on part board? Is that true? If you can honestly say the expense is really no different than the part board and if it is truly a small loan (1k or under) and you also have the means and fortitude to pay an equine attorney to write up a solid contract with the co owner (NO EXCEPTION ON THIS PART) and you can split the cost of major medical/mortality insurance then what the hell. Go for it. You only live once.
                                this^^

                                Originally posted by sketcher View Post
                                Tell the truth - what is the true scenario which offers you such a deal for half ownership? Who is in a bad financial position and trying to spread their liability? How capable are they of bringing this horse along? How can you get stuck holding the bag?What happens if you disagree on a course of action? What if your partner (or you) loses the ability to pay the bills for 6 months?

                                People don't offer half ownership unless they need someone with deep pockets.
                                THIS^

                                though I have to admit I have had part ownerships and 'investment' horses with people not for my deep pockets (because they ain't ) but because I enjoy putting in hard time on athletic training rejects few others are willing to do. And I have gotten really lucky I haven't gotten screwed in the process of co-owernship, that (touch wood) the horses all stayed sound, and nobody changed their mind or goals or flaked out or had a personal crisis along the way.

                                I will never co own or trust anyone with a long term highly volatile project like a horse ever again, and I had nothing but good experiences. There is way too much that can go wrong far too easily.

                                As was said, if the horse goes critically lame - super expensive forget about anything this year lame - the day after you handed over the money and shook hands, what would you do?

                                I won't poo poo your plan, I went for it myself, but I was naive and had complete trust in my trainer and friends... which is stupid now that I look back . Think long and hard about everything that can go wrong because there is a really good chance it will. Just be ready for a bumpy ride if you decide to go through with it (and fingers x'd for a smooth success story!)

                                Originally posted by toesforward View Post
                                It is not a typical situation, my trainer (who I trust very much) is selling me her half as she was co-owner b/c she is training him, and rather than the owner paying her, she co-owns him. the other owner was originally planning on selling all. This owner is very busy and feels to old and has not enough time to work with a young horse. We would split things very equally. I trust these people and have no fear of being taken advantage of.
                                eta: this sounds like you'd be half way invested with a person that originally wanted to walk away completely. What will the co-owner get out of this arrangement? What is her motivation to keep with the plan? What if just as you're reaching your goal the owner decides to call it quits? Without a co-owner that is as equally motivated as you, and you both have a common long term plan and short term escape plan, I would not consider co owning. Even the people you trust can change on you.
                                Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Let me get this straight: you would be buying out the trainer, who has sweat equity only in this horse. The co-owner is basically sponsoring the horse since she has no hope of ever riding him.

                                  I fear the one being taken advantage of is the co-owner. I would not feel good about this unless there was a built in sell date for the horse.

                                  And you say that you want your share-board money going towards a horse you can train and not lose at the mercy of someone else, but wouldn't that still be the case if co-owner decides to get out? And who would be paying the expenses? The woman who will never ride the horse she is subsidizing?
                                  Last edited by TheHorseProblem; Jun. 29, 2011, 09:50 AM. Reason: sp
                                  2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

                                  A helmet saved my life.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Ditto what all the other nay-sayers said...

                                    People who actually make money with horse/horse sales turn them over very quickly to reduce the risk of illness and injury that may hamstring the "business plan".

                                    Sadly, this is also why so many horses are slammed through training "just enough" before they get sour and are sold fast.

                                    Not saying this happens all the time, but very frequently. The longer you own a horse the more likely you WILL deal with a health or injury issue.

                                    If you can afford to lose your investment of time and money, then by all means do it. But be prepared to lose it. If you don't great, if you do you won't be surprised and will be prepared for that.

                                    Best to you.

                                    Forgot to add... your headline uses the word "crazy"...so I suspect on some level you think it may be for your situation.
                                    www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                                    "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                                    Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

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                                    • #19
                                      Well, I say go for it! When you get just a so-so moving horse to the FEI levels it's still just a so-so horse. When you get a fabulously talented mover of a horse to the FEI levels you've got a HORSE!!!
                                      Insure him to the hilt even for loss of use. If the loan is small, go for it.
                                      Remember, you'll miss 100% of the shots you don't take but only some of the shots you do!
                                      The world of dressage (& other equine sports) is made up of sponsorships/partnerships. Just be sure you have a clear, legal contract with the other owner & she/he is someone you trust!
                                      Have a great time & keep me posted! Love to see the young riders come up through the ranks!
                                      Producing horses with gentle minds & brilliant movement!
                                      www.whitfieldfarm.shutterfly.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I won't tell you what you should or should not do but if you choose to proceed, please have an iron-clad contract written. The last thing you want is to take out loans and pour both your money and energy into a horse only to have the other co-owner sell her half, chose to put another rider on board, decide to give the horse the season off/push harder than you want, etc. Unless you see eye to eye on every single level, you will eventually run into some major disagreements. I don't think it's impossible but I don't think it'll be easy either. Best of luck either way

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