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Training issue?

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  • Training issue?

    We have a filly that was raised very well and was very sweet. She went to a trainer who apparently didn't do the right things. After about 5 months with a good trainer she certainly works better then before but she can only work for about 30 minutes. Then she gets crazed and is impossible! She resists and her attention just cannot be gotten back...She is a nice horse with TONS of potential and jumps the moon! Does anyone have any ideas on how to get her past this? The trainer has tried everything he knows. The next step that has been mentioned is the "cowboy" I am not sure of this.. He has tried changing venues, saddles, bits everything even changing her pasture! He has played in the ring, out of the ring and even played soccer with her. She is being ridden 4 times a week now, and it is actually getting worse! She had never offered any bad behavior but now she is thinking about it. The physical issues have been checked. teeth, back etc...
    any ideas?
    Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
    Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
    "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"

  • #2
    how many breaks (both physical and mental) is she getting during a typical ride? how often, and for how long?
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble

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    • #3
      I have had a few horses whose nickel ran out early - 1/2 and hour or 45 minutes max. Ask the trainer to do 2 training sessions of 1/2 hour each and get her hacking out and make life fun. How old is she, anyway?
      bad decisions make good stories

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        He has worked with her very slowly with lots of breaks and walking and such on a long rein also. He takes her out of the ring and walks just for fun..She seems to have a built in clock that when the rider is on that is all that matters...He doesn't ask for a frame or anything like that. He has just been trying to get her to relax...that seems to be the key and she just won't do it. It is such a shame because she is such a nice horse..on the ground she is an in your pocket horse but Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde when mounted.. :-(
        Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
        Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
        "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          She just turned 6...was started as a long 4 year old but that trainer didn't do things right so a lot of time has been invested in fixing those problems too....He has tried all different combinations of time and fun she wants no part of it...
          Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
          Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
          "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"

          Comment


          • #6
            I am curious as to what was done eliminate physical problems as a possible issue.

            I would wonder about something like a back issue that she can only tolerate for so long. This happenned to someone I know; her nice to deal with horse was suddenly going crazy after 20-30 minutes of work. The vet could not find an issue, so the trainer was tranquing the horse to work it. This did help keep the rider safe, but the horse didn't get any better. Finally the owners got a very good chiro/massage therapist out and they found some back and hip issues. Took a few sessions and so slow rehab work, but eventually the horse's work ethic returned and he went back to being the sweet horse he was previously.
            Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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            • #7
              Someone I know once suggested this when you couldn't decide if it was a training/attitude problem or physical pain: Try 4 gm. bute and see what kind of horse you've got.

              I did that with one of mine and I had a completely different horse. Pain was the issue. Three and half grams of bute was what he needed to feel good. Anything less and he was in pain.

              Try it and see.
              Laurie Higgins
              www.coreconnexxions.com
              ________________
              "Expectation is premeditated disappointment."

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree with the bute idea, but some soundness issues are not made better with bute, so don't discount a physical issue just because the bute doesn't help.
                Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Don't forget the stomach! Try 4 scoops of neighlox with some alfalfa pellets before putting the bridle on for 3-4 days. Great diagnostic tool is much cheaper and in my experience better than a week of gastrogaurd.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Have you checked her cardiac and respiratory systems? Any type of cardiac insufficiency that might cause her to start feeling very weak could also trigger a panic attack in a prey animal, and if she has a laryngeal hemiplegia, that also could cause the 'runs out of gas' issue. While you are checking her medically, definitely look into those two, in addition to the other good advice. FWIW, I would not try the Bute, because if the issue is ulcers you could trigger something much worse, namely colitis, a very real risk of Bute.
                    Jeanie
                    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by flyracing View Post
                      Don't forget the stomach! Try 4 scoops of neighlox with some alfalfa pellets before putting the bridle on for 3-4 days. Great diagnostic tool is much cheaper and in my experience better than a week of gastrogaurd.
                      I was going to suggest this as a cheap way to find out if this is the issue. Even if you give 4 days of GG, you should see a difference. Still cheap compared to 5 months of training.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        She has been checked by a good chiro and her teeth are in good shape...may try the GG for 5 days...will keep you posted..
                        Thanks
                        Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
                        Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
                        "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In addition to what others have said, I'd be very interested to hear what the first trainer supposedly did wrong and what exactly the new trainer is doing. What precisely does a typical session consist of and how exactly does he react when the mare acts up?
                          Proud COTH lurker since 2001.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It sounds like she could be over faced or that she just does not understand. Are you sure the trainer is being CLEAR or just doing what he/she always does with other horses? I had a 3 yr old in to start last summer that was extremely mentally SLOOOOW! Took her two or three times longer to figure things out than most. Once she got it she was great. But things took much longer for her to learn. I got her started under saddle lightly then sent her home to grow up which is what I felt she really needed.

                            It is best to look for all possible reasons she may have to not cooperate and try to remove them. Physical and tack fit issues first. Once you eliminate those you mostly just have learning. There are many ways horses can learn. You just have to try different things.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It sounds like she could be over faced or that she just does not understand. Are you sure the trainer is being CLEAR or just doing what he/she always does with other horses? I had a 3 yr old in to start last summer that was extremely mentally SLOOOOW! Took her two or three times longer to figure things out than most. Once she got it she was great. But things took much longer for her to learn. I got her started under saddle lightly then sent her home to grow up which is what I felt she really needed.

                              It is best to look for all possible reasons she may have to not cooperate and try to remove them. Physical and tack fit issues first. Once you eliminate those you mostly just have learning. There are many ways horses can learn. You just have to try different things.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                At this point, we are all just guessing. Can you post a video of this mare being ridden? Something where the camera is held steady, and the image takes up about 3/4ths of the screen so we can see some detail? Some from the beginning of the work, the middle, and at the end when she is getting ugly.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  30 minutes and then she's done is not at all atypical of EPSM issues.

                                  I too would like to know what things have been ruled out, and how.

                                  What's her diet? Breeding?
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I would be checking her for PSSM/EPSM. However, if that is negative, along with all other physical things I woudl try riding her twice daily for 30 minues at a time. See if that helps to build her stamina and work ethic without the potential blowups. Gradually increase the time. Also do LOTS of different things, many of these horses get bored easily. And I find that more true with mares
                                    www.shawneeacres.net

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      When my horse had ulcers, he was relaxed and well-behaved for the first 10-15 minutes, and then started to go crazy the longer he worked because the more her worked, the more his stomach acid sloshed around and aggravated the ulcers. I would definitely suggest a scope or a trial with gastrogaurd.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Okay, trainer number one was sent a nice calm filly that had been backed, tacked, bridled and ridden in the round pen. Had been mounted from both sides and never cared. Trainer got the horse and said she is not ready to be ridden...Why we asked? She was to skiddish? We were surprised but she hadn't been in a new place in a long time. After a time period the mare was allowed to become the alpha and very pushy. We also came to find out that she was terrorized by some gelding!.She also has a dental issue that we told the trainer needs to be addressed and she not only gave us a hard time it turns out the person that came to float the teeth did a really bad job. The mare could not be bridled or haltered without a fight.
                                        She then went to trainer number 2. He has done amazing things with her. He takes his time, rides her in the ring, out of the ring, trail rides her and they even played soccer! She was only working twice a week and getting worse. He has changed the bits, saddles, even her pasture! had her checked by the chiro and had her teeth fixed too....After the 30 minutes she now has a hissy fit and thinks about being dangerous. She has never been like that before. while her clock is ticking she does everything that is asked. but when her time is up she won't even move off the leg or outside rein. It all ends and there is no getting her attention back, He is a very nice calm, soft rider that has done a marvelous job. we are just at a roadblock.
                                        Her diet I would have to ask. She is by Santa Cruz (old) and out of a tb mare Way State...she ahs no muscle wasting,her coat is beautiful, and she eats with gusto,,,Curious about the EPSM, I looked up the symptoms and the attitude is the only thing...I am opening any and all suggestions at this point.
                                        If you want to see her she has an ad up on horseclicks.. oldenburg, mare texas..she is 6 years old. This is not an advertisement, this is so you can see her pics. She was free jumped for the first time the other day and she doesn't care how big the jump got she just sailed over it. She has a ton of scope..I also have some videos but I have to figure out how to load them, theya re on an e-mail as an attachment...
                                        Thanks for all the suggestions.
                                        Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
                                        Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
                                        "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"

                                        Comment

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