• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Using The Neck Stretcher (Bungee Cord)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Using The Neck Stretcher (Bungee Cord)

    No flames please. Just received my June edition of Horse Journal. Several head-set products were explained and compared. I know that I do not have an ideal, elastic contact when riding my mare but we are working on it. She tends to come above the bit.
    I thought perhaps the introduction of the "bungee" while I work on my contact would help her get the idea of what I want.
    Has anyone used this piece of equipment? Adjustment?

  • #2
    The contact the horse will get from the Neck Stretcher is not the same as the contact the horse will get from the rider. Side reins (on the lunge) would be more similar.

    The neck stretcher will mostly put pressure on the pole, which in turn can result in the horse breaking at the 3rd vetebra rather than at the pole (they don't tend to want to give at the point of pressure).

    This rig does not allow for the horse to properly stretch its neck at the walk and canter, and by restricting this natural bob, you will restrict the horse's natural gait and rhythm. the horse may end up curling under rather than stretching through its back.

    Contact should come from the horse understanding to give to (bit) pressure, understanding to move off leg, and the rider underestanding the timing of it all. It takes the development of muscle and shortcuts risk creating a false frame and a horse that is not understanding to use its back and stretch INTO contact.
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

    Comment


    • #3
      I would advise against using auxiliary reins while riding.

      A better quality contact will result from mileage, and working on your balance and strength in the saddle. If you want to help your horse become more supple and connected during this process then I would suggest lunging her in Vienna reins (set so her nose can poke a little above vertical) once or twice per week. A great exercise would be for you to ride her (in Viennas) on the lunge with your reins and stirrups dropped.

      Comment


      • #4
        My trainer has had me use one before. It certainly has its uses in the correct situations, under the correct guidance. It seems to work well for some horses that tend to pop up and resist the contact as you are going along... gives a quick correction when they get significantly above the bit which makes it easier for the rider to get them back on the aids with less of a fight. If it's properly adjusted, it will not engage at all when the horse is relaxed and starting to accept the contact, even if they are somewhat above the bit. I have seen some horses that really stretch nicely and work through with one on the lunge. My two biggest cons: it doesn't allow them to stretch fully at the walk and once you have them on the aids it ends up kind of swinging and bobbing around.

        I'm not a huge fan of "devices" but I am coming to learn that in the right situations, in the right hands, they can be used temporarily to help move past a difficult spot with much less of a struggle while still developing the proper fundamentals.
        "Winter's a good time to stay in and cuddle,
        but put me in summer and I'll be a... happy snowman!!!"

        Trolls be trollin'! -DH

        Comment


        • #5
          using a neck stretcher AS reins (meaning clipped on each side to the bit as your primary rein, no over the poll, nothing) would help prevent nasty snatches to the mouth if you are a severe weeble wobble.
          if you have reasonable control of your body, you just need to keep working at it.
          www.destinationconsensusequus.com
          chaque pas est fait ensemble

          Comment


          • #6
            When I was learning connection through the hand, I used ReinAids...they elasticize your reins to some extent by attatching between the bit and your reins with a bit of elastic. I think they helped me take more contact over time (I rode with way too light a rein and had contact anxiety ) In theory, they should keep things a bit steadier for your horse if there is snatching. Take them off for shows though!

            Comment


            • #7
              I have heard rein-aid work for that as well, although I have never tried them. I'd like to though, just to see what they are like. I had 2 products in Horse Journal this month, too, I am pretty chuffed !
              Shop online at
              www.KoperEquine.com
              http://sweetolivefarm.com/services.php

              Comment


              • #8
                I own one of these too but only use it seldomly on certain horses for particular reasons. Like the very high headed arabian I was riding once. It worked well for him since he didnt respond to stretching downwards with side reins and I havnt needed to use it since then. I sometimes use it on the lunge but it makes it difficult to get proper bend, so I only use it when I really want the horse to stretch low and long, really lift the back and work on balance. But different horses really react differently to it. Its not a bad tool to have in the tackroom though, but see what a trainer says and whether they think it would benefit his training or not first.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by HollysHobbies View Post
                  When I was learning connection through the hand, I used ReinAids...they elasticize your reins to some extent by attatching between the bit and your reins with a bit of elastic. I think they helped me take more contact over time (I rode with way too light a rein and had contact anxiety ) In theory, they should keep things a bit steadier for your horse if there is snatching. Take them off for shows though!
                  As far as I am aware, you do not need to take off the rein aids if you have bought them as whole reins with the elastic part built in. The ones that are attachments that just go between the bit and the regular reins, however, are not legal and do need to be removed.
                  The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                  Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                  Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                  The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Beware

                    I thought this would not do any harm, but I was wrong. My daughter (at her former trainer's suggestion) rode her young horse in this almost exclusively for 5 months. His trot completely changed to a downhill, fast, short trot. His neck was not behind the vertical, but too short. His lovely, well-developed crest shrunk. His back was sore and his hind end lost strength.

                    I saw it first hand and I was appalled. Luckily, he is young and now being ridden correctly and developing nicely.
                    Be careful with these "tools".
                    \"I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.\"--Pogo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                      As far as I am aware, you do not need to take off the rein aids if you have bought them as whole reins with the elastic part built in. The ones that are attachments that just go between the bit and the regular reins, however, are not legal and do need to be removed.
                      From the rule book (DR121.7):
                      "A rein is a continuous, uninterrupted strap or line from the bridle bit to the hand. Rein additions or attachments are not permitted."
                      My take on this is that both types of "rein aids" you described are prohibited. In any event, I wouldn't risk elimination by using them at a show.
                      Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Just Not Native View Post
                        No flames please. Just received my June edition of Horse Journal. Several head-set products were explained and compared. I know that I do not have an ideal, elastic contact when riding my mare but we are working on it. She tends to come above the bit.
                        I thought perhaps the introduction of the "bungee" while I work on my contact would help her get the idea of what I want.
                        Has anyone used this piece of equipment? Adjustment?
                        If you are serious about learning to train & ride dressage & both you & your horse are just learning contact, take the money you would have put into the neck-stretcher (and more) & put it into a little training for both you & your horse.

                        If your mare is a fairly quick learner, a trainer can show her what you want in a session or two, and if you are a fairly quick learner, the trainer can show YOU in about the same time-period, although getting really confirmed will take practice as you & your mare build balance & strength.

                        It often helps if the instructor explains to the green horse, a school horse 'explains' to a green rider, and then the green horse and its rider can go practice together.

                        In my opinion, the neckstretcher will only get in the way of real learning.


                        Good luck!
                        Hidden Echo Farm, Carlisle, PA -- home of JC palomino sire Canadian Kid (1990 - 2013) & AQHA sire Lark's Favorite, son of Rugged Lark.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have just started using a bungee on my 5 (almost 6) IDx gelding, as a lady at my yard suggested, and what she said appears to make sense.

                          He has a well developed crest and enough muscle on his hind quarters (as is my obsession with hill work!) and although responds and comes into a contact, especially in the walk, he will, evade in the trot by lifting his head - though somehow appearing to remain in a contact...

                          I have used the bungee around 4 times, the lady suggest i use it for 2 months, and he will appreciate where he holds his head in future. as far as i can FEEL he has a lot more impulsion from behind as he moves forward, and concentrates on holding his head lower, he stretches well and i always make sure he stretches at the begining and end of a work out!

                          Although he feels better, we do not have mirrors, and i rarely ride when people are about - and if i do, there are so many different opinions, it is hard to know what is right. After trying to read about the cords (or neck stretchers - which isnt such an appealing name) i am becoming slightly concerned over how and when to use this aid.

                          Any suggestions? I am new to this forum thing, and couldnt work out how to start a new thread!

                          Any help appreciated!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Please... Dont. Just dont. IF you are going to use an auxillary rein, learn how to properly use draw reins. Which is even harder to learn to do, than ride better. No flames, just facts.
                            "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                            ---
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              "Several head-set products were explained and compared." There is no "head-set" in dressage. The positioning of the head and neck is a result of correct training over time. It would be much better to get good instruction and keep working toward self-carriage. Other disciplines such as WP or SS do train with head-set equipment, but it is an artificial method that resembles at a glance the posture achieved by correct dressage, but the goals are very different.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                janeamanda

                                When I have used this device I use the sun's shadow to help me to be sure it is adjusted correctly. I have only felt the need of it on a horse with an odd shaped neck or one with a very thick throat latch.....and only until I can feel the correct tension in my hands and see that the irregular neck position has been corrected. Actually, until the correct neck positioning has been found by the horse. I have only used it onhorses that were still at the "close all the doors and leave the front one open" stage....and yet were the type that I did not want to put too much leg on yet. I think it would be very bad for a very foward horse, and when used too tightly, it does just the opposite of what I am describing. The success with using devices such as this are totally dependent on your judgement and finesse.....not for inexperienced riders ever.
                                "Over the Hill?? What Hill, Where?? I don't remember any hill!!!" Favorite Tee Shirt

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  "She tends to come above the bit."

                                  She comes above the bit because she is not accepting the bit. This is were you need to start, to get her to accept the bit. This will become much easier when you have worked more on your contact issue. However, first she needs to accept the bit and you need to understand contact.

                                  Please explain to me how this piece of equipment is going to do that ?

                                  It goes over the poll and this is where there is primary pressure (mistake #1 with any equipment).

                                  It is then run through the bit rings and sometimes worn between the front legs (generally). Just for one moment understand the amount of leverage this piece of leather is exerting on the horses poll. More than a fair amount for sure.

                                  Now, while you are riding the horse how do you relax what is being exerted on the horse? You don't, you can't. This is a fixed piece of equipment. So, now you're not even riding by feel and feel is important. Are you developing feel using this piece of leather ? Well no.

                                  What exactly is the horse learning? He's learning how not to move from back to front. He's learning how this thing AND the rider is causing him pain if he tries to lift his head in protest against hands and arms that are not very sympathetic and are not working in unison with leg and seat because surely if they were this piece of leather would not even be sold.

                                  I know what I am going to hear next. BUT Laura B and Klaus B uses it???? Well, bully for them. Surely they know better but oh well.

                                  Someone suggested draw reins and quite honestly if used for slight lateral flexion and used as intended that would be preferrable. At least with the draw reins the rider is able to follow the horses head and neck and to allow them to stretch.

                                  I don't ever want my horses to "give to the bit".
                                  I do want to be able to put my legs on a horse, any horse, at anytime no mater what is going on under me.

                                  If anyone has a trainer that is advocating this type of leather piece to "fix" your horses contact issue, tell them you prefer to spend your money learning correctly. You can spend $25 in any town and learn from any Janie Smith how to put a false "headset" on a horse.

                                  OP: Riding Logic is a fabulous book when trying to understand theory. If you really digested it you would discover that theory needs to be understood first before picking up the reins. Understanding where to begin with bit acceptance issues is very helpful and it explains this very well.

                                  Also, Longe lessons are great for this as you will learn to separate body parts and to ride independently. Once that is accomplished the hand, contact issues seem to melt away.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    This is a critical part of trainer that unfortunately you have to wade through and work at without using "gear" to help you out.

                                    The only true way to "fix" a horse coming above is to train acceptance of the bit from mouth to hand with a regular rein.
                                    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                                    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Lovely post, Kahlua2. That is exactly what I meant about draw reins, and the point that you DO NOT want the horse to give to the bit is essential and misunderstood/overlooked.
                                      "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                                      ---
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Kahuha2

                                        The bungie is not leather. It is a round elastic cord. And in my case is not used through the bit....it goes over the poll, through the headband on both sides of the head, through a very very loose martinagle neck piece and to the girth. The neck piece is for safety if the horse experiments with his range of motion and puts his head very low to the ground...the neck piece keeps the bungie from drooping low enough to allow a foot to go through it. I like it a lot when a horse experiments and reaches waaayyyy down.....it is really fun to lunge with this to watch the horse's back come up and hind legs reach way under his/her body. I do cavaletti on a lunge with it also. very educational for both horse and I.
                                        "Over the Hill?? What Hill, Where?? I don't remember any hill!!!" Favorite Tee Shirt

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X