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The Judging Was Awful!!!

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  • The Judging Was Awful!!!

    This information needs to get to the USEF!!

    If you are a USEF member and have a comment, complaint, or praise about any licensed official at a show, PLEASE complete a confidential evaluation form and send it to the USEF.

    Also, take a moment to provide feedback about your experience to show organizers.

    We have no one to blame but ourselves if we complain on a message board but don't take advantage of official channels of communication to help bring about changes.

    The forms should be available at shows or you can get it here: http://www.usef.org/documents/compet...Evaluation.pdf.

    I know that compliments are forwarded to judges (without a name attached) because from time to time judges have told me that they've received them. I believe complaints are recorded. They may also be forwarded and nobody wants to admit it.

    Janet adds:
    I have been led to believe (don't know if it true or not) that if a judge receives two or more negative comments on basically the same thing, the judge will be contacted and informed of the gist of it, though they will not see the actual comments.

    When it is time to renew a judge's license, I think the LOC reads everything in the judge's file.


    (This is based on a reply I made elsewhere that I'm reposting because I think this information may be useful to folks who aren't following that particular thread (here: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=305692).)
    Last edited by AllWeatherGal; May. 24, 2011, 02:58 PM. Reason: edited to add Janet's information, edited to add link to original message per atlatl request
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  • #2
    Could you provide a link to the other thread please?

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    • #3
      link doesn't load
      www.destinationconsensusequus.com
      chaque pas est fait ensemble

      Comment


      • #4
        Are we talking about a real show? Or is this because of the other conversation about judging as a whole, based on the article?
        "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

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        • #5
          I think it's referring to post #9 (and others) on the Sally O'Connor thread.

          Comment


          • #6
            FWIW, the judge was NOT Sally.
            And yes, an evaluation was filled out and sent to the appropriate parties.

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            • Original Poster

              #7
              Petstorejunkie (link doesn't load ) ... not sure how to help. It loads for me. This is the URL again: http://www.usef.org/documents/compet...Evaluation.pdf (the message board does not allow the URL without formatting)

              Velvet (Are we talking about a real show? Or is this because of the other conversation about judging as a whole, based on the article? ) ... A real show. The form requires a competition name and date. It was in response to someone commenting about bad judging (by an unnamed judge) on the Sally O'Connor thread.

              atlatl (Could you provide a link to the other thread please? ) ... please see first post which has been edited to include a referral to the Sally O'Connor thread.

              joiedevie99 (I think it's referring to post #9 (and others) on the Sally O'Connor thread.) ... thanks
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              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by MeghanDACVA View Post
                FWIW, the judge was NOT Sally.
                And yes, an evaluation was filled out and sent to the appropriate parties.
                Awesome
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                • #9
                  Oh, and FWIW, the judging itself was quite good. The judge was actually far kinder than I would have been to me. It was nice that they didn't nail the entire movement for a fooble that was only a stride or 2 but rather scored the good and the bad of it together. And the scores definitely reflected that. Which was refreshing after mostly seeing scores and comments that only reflect the mistake made and no credit or comment regarding what was done right the other 90% of the movement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looking at the form, it appears that (since it is anonymous) it can be completed by anybody - is that the intention, or does anybody know more about this?
                    For example, if I scribed for a judge and had comments, should I fill one out? (I don't usually scribe at USEF recognized shows, so this is a very hypothetical question - if I have feedback on a judge at a schooling show, I give it to the show manager)

                    If you are a USEF member grooming for a friend, and recognize something (positive, negative, whatever), should you still report it?

                    In other words, should these forms be used by competitors only, or should any observer fill them out?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The USEA form (which I used since I event) asks you if you were competitor, volunteer, groom, owner, volunteer, etc.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rhiannonjk View Post
                        For example, if I scribed for a judge and had comments, should I fill one out? (I don't usually scribe at USEF recognized shows, so this is a very hypothetical question - if I have feedback on a judge at a schooling show, I give it to the show manager)
                        Yes, if you scribe and you have a comment - it doesn't have to be a bad thing, it could be praise - pass it along. I once ran a show which was a USEF/USDF approved dressage show. The judge was warned that it would be mostly kids and AA and probably all either Intro or Training Level, but apparently she forgot. She turned to the scribe and said, "Here comes yet another fat middle aged woman down the centerline. She has no business trying to show."

                        The scribe reported her for this. If you see or hear anything like this, please do report it.

                        Also, most judges at schooling shows have some sort of credentials. If the judge is a USDF "L" Program graduate, your comment should go to USDF. If the judge is a USEF judge, even at a schooling show, your comments can go to both USDF and USEF.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh, that's very good to know.

                          And if I heard the "Fat middle-aged woman" comment, it might cause me to completely loose my cool. I scribed for one judge who had a great reputation, but seemed to be in a completely sour spell for the day, and at least had a conversation with the show manager afterward about the general "Tone" of the show as a result. There were times where she told me to write something, and I wanted to just say "No."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I did over hear a woman at the most recent show complaining to the show manager that a judge had made a comment about her lips and made the case that how could she have been watching that specific movement if she was looking at her mouth. The manager asked her if she wanted to file a complaint and the woman declined, saying it's not that big of a deal. I don't know about some, but it's a pretty big deal when I drop $400+ on a weekend show and get comments that have nothing to do with the test I'm riding...

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ACP View Post
                              Yes, if you scribe and you have a comment - it doesn't have to be a bad thing, it could be praise - pass it along. ...
                              I have to say that I definitely let show management know if I have high praise or serious concern about a judge, *and* I would respond to a judge's unkind remark made privately to me in the judge's booth with a mild reminder such as "Well, yes, but in this area we don't often have the opportunity to get feedback from someone of your caliber and I imagine they're are looking forward to your professional evaluation."

                              But I wouldn't write a report to the USEF about a judge from my "private" knowledge as a scribe. It feels like breaking a confidence.
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                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by MYalterID View Post
                                I did over hear a woman at the most recent show complaining to the show manager that a judge had made a comment about her lips and made the case that how could she have been watching that specific movement if she was looking at her mouth. The manager asked her if she wanted to file a complaint and the woman declined, saying it's not that big of a deal. I don't know about some, but it's a pretty big deal when I drop $400+ on a weekend show and get comments that have nothing to do with the test I'm riding...
                                I was hoping someone would bring up that episode, it got spread pretty far around the showgrunds that day. The comment was enclosed in a handwritten box by the judge and was to the effect of "did you know you lick your lips constantly when you ride". Completely inappropriate comment, and I wish she would have filed a formal complaint about it.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
                                  The comment was enclosed in a handwritten box by the judge and was to the effect of "did you know you lick your lips constantly when you ride". Completely inappropriate comment, and I wish she would have filed a formal complaint about it.
                                  Well, I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't show dressage, but I think if I was making a face or something similar that was awful enough to distract the judge enough for her to make a comment about it, I'd kind of like to know. Some of these things can affect your ride. I mean if breathing can then couldn't tenseness that surfaced in constant lip licking also?

                                  Maybe the rider should tie her tongue LOL!
                                  ::Sometimes you have to burn a few bridges to keep the crazies from following you::

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by MYalterID View Post
                                    and made the case that how could she have been watching that specific movement if she was looking at her mouth. ... and get comments that have nothing to do with the test I'm riding...
                                    Couple of observations from my experience watching judges and my own lessons.

                                    1. "Did you know that ..." is a question more than criticism and if it was in a hand-written box, I think it was meant to be helpful rather than catty or insulting.

                                    2. Judges really CAN see the entirety of what's going on in front of them. That's how they can see what's going on with the horse's mouth, the rider's hands, the horse's legs, and the rider's seat. Licking one's lips could be VERY distracting and have caught the judge's attention as she was assessing a cause for tension somewhere.

                                    I purse my lips. A lot. My new instructor believes the tension in my mouth affects the entire "system" of horse and rider. I'm glad someone pointed out this habit of mine, and happier that it's my instructor at home rather than a judge at a show, but still ... you can't address what you don't know about.
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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
                                      I was hoping someone would bring up that episode, it got spread pretty far around the showgrunds that day. The comment was enclosed in a handwritten box by the judge and was to the effect of "did you know you lick your lips constantly when you ride". Completely inappropriate comment, and I wish she would have filed a formal complaint about it.
                                      Actually, I think it's good that the judge pointed it out. When I was a kid, whenever I jumped I stuck my tongue out, clenched between my teeth, until the day something went very very wrong and I bit my tongue! Yes, my instructor had pointed it out to me, but it was a hard habit to break. Lip-licking could lead to a similar outcome...
                                      You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                                      1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I did the same thing ( sticking the tongue out) and didnt beleive it until someone showed me a video... I would want to know if I was doing something very distracting...

                                        Comment

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