• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

How long does it take for a rider to learn dressage?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How long does it take for a rider to learn dressage?

    So I have been working with some big name riders and trainers, and their comments got me thinking of the progression of dressage riders and timeframe. What constitutes a "beginner"? At what point is one considered a "good" or experienced rider?

    Here's where this stems from: I was recently given the opportunity to train with a BNT that is hard to get time with. I felt like I wasn't good enough to bother so I didn't. He later saw me riding my horse and commented that I was a "very good" rider and he would like to work with me. I don't think it was motivated by money as I am training with him for a minimal fee and was already planning to have him work with my horse himself.

    Anyway, we had our first ride tonight and he called me a beginner. This completely confused me! Can beginners be "very good" riders? Is this because I haven't shown higher levels or cannot train on my own horse? I asked him about timeframes and he commented that "dressage" takes a lifetime.

    Anyway, it just got me thinking about how we define our experiences and abilities. What do you think?

  • #2
    dressage takes lifetimes to learn
    you probably have good basics and show promise.
    chaque pas est fait ensemble


    • #3
      First, dressage DOES take a lifetime and you NEVER stop learning from your horses and your teachers. NEVER.

      Second, his terms are relative to his abilities (the trainer, that is). If he is a BNT that has trained many horses and riders, you probably are a beginner. He probably sees talent, but the distance between, say, training a couple of horses to Second or Third Level and training a horse to be nationally (let alone internationally) competitive at Grand Prix is comparable to having someone say that they can climb hills in the Blue Ridge Mountains versus climbing Everest. In that case, you are a beginner.

      Be glad. You probably will not have to unlearn a lot of bad habits. You also have someone who is able to see that you have talent and wants to help you get there--and they have a realistic perspective (and I'm assuming, approach) on what it will take for you to get there and do it well and CORRECTLY.

      Don't be offended. You're still able to climb small (barely) mountains--if you can ride and train 2nd and 3rd. If you can only do 1st and 2nd, then you really would be called a rank beginner, but most people wouldn't say that because it could be construed as insulting.

      The problem for most people is the old adage of you don't know what you don't know. When you begin to learn some of the things it takes to get anywhere near the top you'll look back and realize you were not as far along as you had thought at this point in time.

      Enjoy it! Be humble and learn!
      "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


      • Original Poster


        Velvet- Cracking up at your quote at the bottom!


        • #5
          I agree, a lifetime, every time I think I have gotten it, I learn something else. I am training 2nd/3rd level, I have ridden 4th level horses... and in dressage world, I consider myself intermediate, at best. Now, in the horse world in general, I consider myself very knowledgeable. I am a sponge in the horse world, I can't learn enough.
          ~Amy~ TrakehNERD clique
          *Bugs 5/86-3/10 OTTB Mare* RIP lovely Lady, I miss you
          *Frodo '03 Anglo Trakehner Gelding*
          My Facebook


          • #6
            According to a former trainer about 9 lives.

            But really, dressage is eternal learning. And then it all depends on the horse(s) and instruction you have available, how much time you can spend doing it, and how talented, dedicated and physically able to do it you are.

            For me it took about 5 years to get even the slightest HINT of what dressage was about. But I started at absolute zero (no horse experience at all) and after two years of lessons and leasing bought a horse who was mostly unavailable for riding duty. Not until schoolmasters came into my life did I make real dressage progress. After 10 years, I think I now have about two or three pretty good hints .

            And yes, you can be a beginning dressage rider, but be a very good rider, i.e. balanced, in harmony with your horse, and with good feel.
            "Reite dein Pferd vorwärts und richte es gerade.” Gustav Steinbrecht


            • #7
              Took me 6 months to get a decent walk/trot transition and to keep it with decent rhythm.

              He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


              • #8
                If you are green as grass and buy a made GP horse and take several lessons a week with a fantastic instructor, it will still take you three or four years to be riding GP, but probably still not training GP.

                If you buy a very green horse when you are still learning trot-canter transitions yourself and take one lesson a month, it will take you one or two decades to get to First Level, if at all.

                If you buy a Walk-Trot-Canter trained -but not necessarily dressage specialist- horse when you are learning trot-canter transitions, and take two lessons a week with a good instructor and maybe have the instructor do a pro ride a week, you and horse ought to be doing Second/Third in 2 to 3 years.
                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY


                • #9
                  I am very lucky in that even though I am looking at WTC trained horses to own, I take dressage lessons on a PSG schoolmaster. It would really be challenging to be learning dressage on a horse that is also learning dressage. I'd learned lateral movements and equitation on your regular tried and true school horse (equitation barn) so I know leg yield, shoulder in, etc., but it took me 6 months to be correct enough on that schoolmaster to actually trot. Mind you I've been riding since I was a child, but am new to dressage.

                  Does that help?
                  He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


                  • #10
                    I had been "studying dressage" for 20 years before I rode my first actual perfect 20 meter trot circle on a schoolmaster.

                    That's the beauty of dressage ... and if you can afford it, NEVER turn down the invitation of a BNT-type you admire, no matter how much you think you're not ready!


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                      If you can only do 1st and 2nd, then you really would be called a rank beginner, but most people wouldn't say that because it could be construed as insulting.
                      Wait, really? Do you all agree with this statement that a rider at 2nd level is a "rank beginner"? A rider at that level has to have a good seat, independent aids, an understanding of contact and collection, etc... If that's a beginner, what would you call a rider at Training and 1st level?


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JCS View Post
                        Wait, really? Do you all agree with this statement that a rider at 2nd level is a "rank beginner"? A rider at that level has to have a good seat, independent aids, an understanding of contact and collection, etc... If that's a beginner, what would you call a rider at Training and 1st level?

                        You might want to read things in CONTEXT before pulling out a sentence.

                        What I said was compared to an uber experienced, international trainer. Yep, in that case you ARE a rank beginner. If you don't know that right now, then you really don't know how little you do not know.
                        "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


                        • #13
                          Even out of context I would still agree with it for the most part. You can still see some pretty horrible riding at those levels.

                          I would say wt/training is rank beginner and 1st and into 2nd like advanced beginner.


                          • #14
                            Yep, agree with you Velvet. I consider myself a decent dressage rider in the little part of the US where I live. My horses do well at the shows, I can sit and have decent feel.....can train a horse to PSG...been doing it for 25 years....all that jazz. That said, I am eternally amazed every time I venture to europe and see incredible riding from people who are no-name (to my knowledge) but good professionals none-the-less. Somehow, seeing this high level of riding on more average horses really drives home the fact that what we consider good riding in Colorado is RANK BEGINNER on the world stage. And.....that's OK. I still enjoy the journey and still deeply enjoy every step of progress I make. Accepting the reality of the situation makes me more open to knowing how little I do know and more eager to continue to advance. Knowing I'm middling rider on the world stage gives me the resolve to NEVER, EVER sit back and think I've learned it all......then stagnate like many, many riders do.


                            • #15
                              And before I get flamed, I'm not implying that there aren't great riders in the US or Colorado. It's just that I haven't been to as many top barns here to watch schooling and haven't seen our top riders working with more average-talent horses (they usually have very talented horses). Somehow, seeing really good riders bring out everything from an average-talent horse is what really blows me away.


                              • #16

                                It is so humbling to see and be around great riders, isn't it? In the US we often see big fish in our own pond/back yard and think that's the top. NOT! I wish more people would travel to really learn. It's such an eye opener and is really needed to inspire people to reach higher. Bringing in clinicians and watching them work with people in your area who are the area's best is just not the same. Most have worked with each other and some just really never get the big picture and continue to lack certain skills that make the difference between locally good and internationally great. You need to see that to be inspired.

                                I will say, however, that sometimes taking a break from lessons and just fiddling around with things on your own with a really good horse (that's very well started) is also a big education. You need to go back and have lessons, but during the time when you're messing around, if you have feel and are sensitive to small influences you make to the horse, you can learn volumes. Horses are great teachers and learning to feel without someone telling you at the moment if it's right and wrong can teach you how to find better communication and feel with your horse. Like I said, balance it with instruction, but a small hiatus will let you know if you're on the right track when you later come back to lessons. I think this is sometimes missing when some really good people just lean on their coach and don't also grow in the area of self-checks and balances.

                                Then again, that's not for beginners as much as intermediate and advanced riders!
                                "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


                                • #17
                                  I was once told it takes at least 20 years to make a rider, 10 years to make a horse.

                                  I have been riding for 21 and still feel like I have eons to go.

                                  I also go by the axiom - one rider makes a horse, many horses make a rider.
                                  bad decisions make good stories


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by JCS View Post
                                    Wait, really? Do you all agree with this statement that a rider at 2nd level is a "rank beginner"? A rider at that level has to have a good seat, independent aids, an understanding of contact and collection, etc... If that's a beginner, what would you call a rider at Training and 1st level?
                                    I probably wouldn't use the adjective "rank," but yes, I agree. I'd call a 2nd level rider a beginner *at dressage* on the scale of 1st to GP. I don't think I'd even put training level on the scale, actually ...


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by AllWeatherGal View Post
                                      I don't think I'd even put training level on the scale, actually ...
                                      Damn, what am I doing then? Simon Says on Horseback?

                                      I thought one of the joys of riding, in any type of tack, is that you're never, ever done learning... something my Schoolmaster reminds me about every other minute.
                                      "Go on, Bill — this is no place for a pony."


                                      • #20
                                        I agree with Velvet and AllWeatherGal.
                                        If dressage is a journey then Training Level is packing the snacks and 1st Level is getting your foot out the door
                                        What would GP be then?
                                        You see a mouse-trap. I see free cheeze and a challenge