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S and O level judges who have never ridden upper levels - a question about them

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  • S and O level judges who have never ridden upper levels - a question about them

    I am editing this to make clear that I am not trying to bash any particular judge/trainer - or anyone at all. I am curious how they can do it. I leave the original post below.
    =============

    Okay, so I've been getting invitations for years to ride in clinics with Axel Steiner, where they advertise him teaching all levels up through Grand Prix.

    And I know the guy is an Olympic level judge and all, but here's the deal:

    I have been hearing for years and from many credible sources that Axel Steiner has, himself, never shown beyond 2nd level in dressage. If this is true, how can he teach riding clinics that are anything more than "what the judge will look for at a show?" I mean, how can he teach movements that he's never ridden???

    I'm really not intending to bash the guy. I'm sure he's got a good eye at a show after judging for so many years. I'm just curious how he can teach moves he's never ridden.
    Last edited by Sonesta; Mar. 8, 2011, 12:57 PM.
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

  • #2
    Here's his bio: http://www.axelsteiner.com/

    Not sure how high he showed, but it's quite possible that even if he did not show FEI much, he has the proper level of training from the places he studied and the people he worked with to make him of value. Not sure, but it's happened with other riders who don't show/compete for various reasons. SRS riders don't necessarily compete...neither do the CN riders.
    "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

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    • #3
      I'm just curious how he can teach moves he's never ridden.
      you said he has never shown the level....that does not mean he has never ridden them.
      Humans don’t mind duress, in fact they thrive on it. What they mind is not feeling necessary. –Sebastian Junger

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Bogey2 View Post
        you said he has never shown the level....that does not mean he has never ridden them.
        I think that was my point.
        "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

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        • #5
          From my experience he is an interesting guy to clinic with in the sense that he can give you the judge's view of things. He is knowledgeable and can be very good with some riders. However I would not count on him to solve a complicated training problem or deal with a horse that doesn't fit the typical mold.
          He is good in the way that he does not mince words and he will say what he sees good or bad.
          I would go watch his clinics if he came to my area again, but I would probably not ride again with the same horse. If I got a new horse then maybe.

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          • #6
            Gosh, I'd ride with him in a heartbeat if the opportunity presented itself. He's a great judge who knows his stuff.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ziutek View Post
              From my experience he is an interesting guy to clinic with in the sense that he can give you the judge's view of things. He is knowledgeable and can be very good with some riders. However I would not count on him to solve a complicated training problem or deal with a horse that doesn't fit the typical mold.
              He is good in the way that he does not mince words and he will say what he sees good or bad.
              I would go watch his clinics if he came to my area again, but I would probably not ride again with the same horse. If I got a new horse then maybe.

              [Quote]Bogey2]you said he has never shown the level....that does not mean he has never ridden them.[Quote]

              Having ridden them, doesn't mean having trained to them, which could be perhaps the reason for Ziutek's take. A good rider, with excellent coaching can ride an acceptable test. Having the patience and toolbox to train to that level, on varying horses is an whole nother matter.
              Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

              Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

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              • #8
                To me Axel Steiner is great to give you the judge's point of view, i.e. what gets rewarded, what doesn't. I would not look to him to solve any difficult training issues...

                Also spectated a clinic where he went over the new tests and that was well done....
                Siegi Belz
                www.stalleuropa.com
                2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

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                • #9
                  He's an "S" judge, right? Don't they have a minimum competition standard for achieving that level?
                  From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.

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                  • #10
                    I would ride with him in a heart beat. On my very 'non traditional' dressage horse.

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                    • #11
                      I thought he was an "O" judge. Don't they have to have competed at the FEI level to be able to judge it? I know the requirements are quite strict.....?
                      www.svhanoverians.com

                      "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

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                      • #12
                        I think that was my point
                        yeah, but you said it much better
                        Humans don’t mind duress, in fact they thrive on it. What they mind is not feeling necessary. –Sebastian Junger

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Donella View Post
                          I thought he was an "O" judge. Don't they have to have competed at the FEI level to be able to judge it? I know the requirements are quite strict.....?
                          You can have trained horses and/or riders to GP

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                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Um, not when he got his license. He was grandfathered in.
                            Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

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                            • #15
                              He judges the Olympics (O-judge), I'd gladly ride with him. He's one of the best!!! Doesn't bother me what he has/hasn't ridden a certain level, its clear he knows his stuff.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I have no opinion on Axel as I don't know him, but this is the same issue as with DeKunffy. He never showed, either. Both were able to get their licenses before there were any riding or training requirements.

                                That said, like others said, his usefulness to be able to see the judge's POV might be useful. I think he has a pretty solid reputation as a judge.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Sonesta View Post
                                  Um, not when he got his license. He was grandfathered in.

                                  Well, all I can say if anyone has ANY problems riding with ANYONE then DO NOT RIDE with that person.

                                  Case closed.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I will be auditing his clinic in two weeks. If this thread is still alive I will chime in after. I am really looking forward to going.
                                    Proud Member of the Opinionated Redhead Club! RIP my dear Avery ~3/21/1995-9/21/2011~

                                    Extreme Cat!!! 2006 OTTB
                                    Magic Cat - Final Demand

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                                    • #19
                                      I'm pretty sure that most figure skating judges couldn't do a quad jump; most couldn't do a triple. But they sure are qualified to know what is good and what is not good, and I'll bet that most know how to make the not-so-good better.

                                      I agree with mjhco -- if you're not confident in the clinician, take your money elsewhere.
                                      Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

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                                      • #20
                                        Seems a bit odd to be asking about him and posting what you've heard about his credentials. Are you trying to dissuade others from riding with him because you don't want to?

                                        Why not just contact Betsy and ask for her opinion.
                                        "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

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