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Let's Take a Look at Dressage in 1972

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  • Let's Take a Look at Dressage in 1972

    Dressage exhibition by Liselott Linsehnoff on her horse Piaff in 1972.


    So what's different then and now? Let's see what the dressage-savy CotHers have to say.
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

  • #2
    Say, what are you trying to pull here??

    Everybody that knows anything knows that dressage back then was not as good as it is today. afterall, dressage has evolved. Where have you been buddy boy??

    This woman is nothing more than a show off---a piaffe practically in place, a one handed passage to piaffe, and than a halt directly into piaffe. Everybody knows that piaffe needs to be travelling not how she is doing it.

    And just what the hell is up with the halt?? She just halts--shouldn't her horse be jigging and bolting forward? Especially with all that damn electricity in that place??

    And how come when I advance this video manually I can't seem to find the places where his chin is suppose to be glued on his chest with his eyes rolling back in his head with a horizontal curb and all this moment in time stuff? And while the hell is this rider not braced in her irons riding the horses mouth.

    And why are his front legs not being flung way out in front like all the horses that get all those 10's by the judges.

    And wait a minute here--- why isn't his tongue blue and hanging out of the side of his mouth??

    Who do you think you are?? Do you think I was born yesterday or something??


    • #3
      Very nice and harmonious ride..... also a perfect example to highlight how much more talented today's equine athletes are at these levels.
      Siegi Belz
      2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
      Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


      • #4
        Ahhhhh...love the Warmbloods of old. A hunk a hunk of burnin horse, and a noble nose to boot! Beautiful!


        • #5
          In 1972 I thought Piaff was the best dressage horse ever. I still like him a lot but think that we have many far better horses today. In this video, he looks quick and tight and not terribly expressive. Also, if you look at the piaffe at the 4:58 minute mark, you will see that he is stepping backwards which is incorrect. I recall reading an article years ago in which Podhajsky was highly critical of this horse's piaffe. Anyway, very nice for the time.
          Last edited by suzy; Feb. 23, 2011, 12:39 PM.


          • #6
            Very nice and harmonious ride..... also a perfect example to highlight how much more talented today's equine athletes are at these levels

            No kidding.

            "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


            • #7
              I did not watch the whole thing, Mike, but from what I did watch, it was lovely. Two things that I immediately noticed. This woman had the good sense to have her stirrups short enough that she could appropriately weight them, AND she also worked very hard at keeping the horse's poll as the highest portion of the neck. Those things have been seriously lost today, and account for so many horses being ridden in these movements by force, and not willing coming through completely.


              • #8
                Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
                Very nice and harmonious ride..... also a perfect example to highlight how much more talented today's equine athletes are at these levels.
                Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts


                • #9
                  I can't believe it, but I'm going to say it, this is the first dressage video of ol' that does not make me think "the good ol days"
                  chaque pas est fait ensemble


                  • #10
                    The horse does look very relaxed in the beginning, but he is also not as collected nor working as hard as later on, when he appears a bit more tense. It is nice to see the aids the rider gives, at least for my own education.

                    I do not think he would be equally competitive today as he was in his day.

                    Very interesting to watch for comparison.
                    Horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.


                    • #11
                      How about 1960 and Josef Neckermann?

                      "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


                      • #12
                        Or, 1976 with Granat.

                        "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


                        • #13
                          To me, this vid clearly shows how "correctness" was more important than "flash". I just loved watching for that reason alone. Transitions from piaffe to passage is what I like to see-smooth without that crabby jump from one to another.

                          I also really love those older tests where there are zig-zags that don't go across the ring, and pirouettes that go one round instead of 2. They look livelier and happier to me. I love the 10 meter circles as well.

                          The controversy is that the horse is a bit strung out in the back at times into a more correct frame in front (not overbent, nose vertical ) vs. all the horses that need to be overbent to get those legs more underneath. What way is more correct? Who knows. What horses get both and win?


                          • #14
                            I like the dressage of old. So many of todays top horses simply look like circus freaks. Not buying the statement that the horses of today have more "talent". They move differently.
                            Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.


                            • #15
                              I think Asbach could still be competitive today. I really like him.
                              "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                                I think Asbach could still be competitive today. I really like him.
                                Me, too.

                                I like him, and am not a huge Totilas fan (despite seeing many amazing things about him I only wish my horse and I could do to a 10th of his ability) because I simply like the leaner, leggier look.

                                I think there were different expectations - I like that observation that they could get more strung out, yet had more "correct" head carriage. Which should be called correct? I don't know. I wasn't alive yet when any of the videos posted on this thread came to be, so I'm naturally going to lean toward the "modern" look. I do find it fascinating to watch the old videos, though! I'm still trying to educate my eye, so being able to see and compare differences, and even read comments with my mental filter on helps.
                                Originally posted by Silverbridge
                                If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                                  I think Asbach could still be competitive today. I really like him.
                                  Agreed. Lovely, elegant horse with great self carriage.


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
                                    Very nice and harmonious ride..... also a perfect example to highlight how much more talented today's equine athletes are at these levels.
                                    I agree, yet also disagree...

                                    I personally find something amiss in the shorter necked /longerlegged proportions of todays athletic prospects in combination with the hyper-suspension of gaits that leave the stride 'hovering' rather than smooth, round and long. And then there is the matter of straight movement of leg tracks without erratic deviation of twisting and winging...

                                    And 'the levels' to me implies the training (vs. talent would imply inborn) which has become theatric; whether one thinks that is an improvement over merely 'correct' is a matter of debate that I'm not going into.

                                    Many riders today are less able than their horses...

                                    On a breeding note, how many of these families of the 60's and 70's are still behind today's new greats 30-40 years later?

                                    Makes one wonder how vital using currently successful stock will be in producing the greats 30 years from now?


                                    • #19
                                      I think Marzog was pretty cool and bendy.

                                      "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


                                      • #20
                                        Another Olympic horse of Neckermanns!