• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Bit suggestion

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bit suggestion

    Hey,
    I haven't posted on this forum before but I need ideas. I am currently riding a heavier build gelding that has much training in the past but was coddled and basically not in work for a few years. He is coming 11 years old now but has zero work ethic and is extremely herd bound. He is currently very wiggly and counter bends often most after he begins to tire of working - he starts rushing through and becomes more unbalanced as we go - I'm sure that will improve with time however he does have an issue leaning on the bit and I think the type of bit is part of the issue. We do work on tonnes of transitions, sprials, stretchy circles but he still tries to pull on through. He is currently in a cherry roller bit that is huge and I think part of it is it's too big for his palate. I'm hoping to get some training ideas and bit suggestions here.

    Thanks so much!

  • #2
    It sounds like your horse is still lacking fitness to carry himself for a long period of time or a short period of time, for that matter. You could help him with his fitness by hacking, interval conditioning work --also adds variety into training schedule.

    If he leaning and balancing on the forehand, then your half-halts are not coming through or not often enough -like every stride or every few strides when he is more capable.
    What level is this horse? What level are you?
    You could dedicate a few days a week of lunging in vienna sidereins and let him sort out his own balance. Make sure he is actually going forward in his gaits and ask for sharp transitions up & down often, but not in any order so he doesn't start driving the bus. You are the one in charge.

    As far as bits, I like KK Ultras or french links in 16mm or 14mm depending on the horse and it's mouth size.

    Comment


    • #3
      He cannot lean on what is not there. Ie, if he leans consistently, and nudging him with your legs and closing your hands simultaneously does not work to get him off your hands, then you need to remove your hands. Personally, I work any and all horses (freshly started to ones being re-trained, etc) on a loose rein to start. They learn independence and to carry and balance themselves on their own. You can put them through a variety of exercises (circles, figure-8's, serpentines, etc) and do a lot of strengthening work (trot poles, hills, trails, lots and lots of trot work) - all on that loose rein. Then as he starts to pick himself up a little and have the strength to balance, you can start removing the droop in the rein. Ultimately the horse is the one who establishes the contact, but when you feel he is ready strength-wise and learning-wise, you can ask him to accept contact (ie, that your hands simply be there) and start bending him inside leg to outside rein as you work.

      Work ethic will be developed with correct horsemanship. If he wants to be with you and enjoys his work with you, he will put more effort into his work. Transitions and LOTS of rest breaks when he tries, are key.

      Herdboundness disappears also as you work with him and develop a partnership. Just put him to work and make him think in the mean time (ie, poles, trails, patterns, etc).

      Perhaps you are asking too much of him though? If he is becoming increasingly unbalanced and is counter-bending and rushing, then it sounds like you need to build up a better foundation. His schooling has to be more progressive and he needs more strength-building exercises that do not ask too much of his current condition. Then as he builds strength, you can ask for more. This probably all ties into his leaning issue. I am thinking the spiraling might be one exercise I would cut out right now, for now. I'd work on large, loose circles, large loopy serpentines, and large figure-8's, as well as long straight lines (especially long straight lines for the unmotivated horse) for now to build strength. Incorporate poles and lots of trotting, as well as hills if possible. It just really sounds like you are asking too much of him too soon. His mind might be capable due to past training, but his body is not.

      As far as the bit being too big for his palate?? Look in his mouth when he is resting and figure out what the bit is doing. If it is a single-jointed, as I suspect it is, it will have palate action, so maybe it is not appropriate. Try double-jointed (more bar pressure but no digging into the palate or having that nutcracker effect on the tongue) or a low port (under 2" should not interfere with his palate, but you need to of course make sure that is the case in his mouth). Both types of bits offer tongue relief, which he might appreciate. Play around with bits a little and see if you can't borrow a couple different types of mouthpieces to try them out.
      ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
      ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Wow - thanks for all the suggestions - I think you may be on the head with him having the knowlege but not the fitness. I will take it back down a step and see where we go from there. I like the idea of trying to lunge with some side reins - loosely at first to help him as well. He is a sweet guy - was spoiled rotten and loves to lazy out but I think overall I can tell when I praise him for doing well he soaks it up. I would love to be able to hack but right now he is so herd bound that unless I am able to get a partner to go out with he will not be safe as a hack. He has some issues but is definitely improving as we go. I'm going to take a look inside his mouth with the bit in but from what I'm seeing it hits the roof of his mouth it's so large and yes it is a a single jointed bit - I am going to take a look at some french links - I generally prefer a double jointed bit in any case.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sounds like a fitness issue, but that still doesn't solve that his bit doesn't fit.


          for bit suggestions, evaluate the following anatomical parts of his mouth and rate small, normal, large

          lip thickness and texture
          corner of mouth in relation to molars
          bar spacing
          tongue thickness
          palate roof arch

          with that information I can narrow down about 75% of the bits out there and get you something that fits better.
          www.destinationconsensusequus.com
          chaque pas est fait ensemble

          Comment


          • #6
            I'll bet that dressage riders end up with a large amount of bits, LOL. I finally ended up using a mullen mouth pelham, starting with a rein on the bottom ring, then adding another rein to use as a snaffle rein when I was ready. Then we moved to shorter pelham shanks. I've never had any problem communicating neck flexion , circles, and shoulder-in with a curb. I flex the neck , then push her body up into soft hands and a nice head position, and hold her into the frame with my abdomen muscles. All with a very light contact, no force.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I'll have to take a closer look tonight - I would say on looking at some of my pictures of him he has a non flabby lip if this makes sense - kind of thin - they are soft but firm - not rough or too hard. He does have a huge tongue in terms of width and thickness - especially although he is a drafty type his head is not that large and mouth is smaller to me for the size of the bit- his palate arch is also lower. When I have put my finger into the bars it seems fairly shallow and smaller more sure in width as well again - smaller mouth compared to his size overall.
              Thanks!

              Comment


              • #8
                Try:
                French Link Loose Ring
                My preferred french link I like this one for your horse because of his lip thickness.
                Myler Level 1
                Dr Bristol note the angulation of the center piece. this bit, if it were in the horse's mouth presently, the horse would be facing you. When it is hanging on the rack, the centerpiece should hang freely and vertically. It is very easy to attach this bit upside down and create a totally different effect.

                Having no space in the mouth but thinner lips means you'll want to find bits that are thin except on the edges. I'd start with the second one I posted and see how it goes.
                www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                chaque pas est fait ensemble

                Comment

                Working...
                X