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Spinoff Video policy, BNT doesn't allow pictures to be taken

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  • Spinoff Video policy, BNT doesn't allow pictures to be taken

    My friend has been training with a BNT for over a year (one lesson and 2 rides a week). Lately she has not been able to ride very often with said BNT but has made some progress with her horse and wanted BNT's assement on horse.

    So she asked BNT to ride her horse.
    Friend of friend is coming to the barn to take pictures of everybody that day. Friend gives a bath to her horse and made him extra pretty.
    She asks BNT if it's Ok to take pictures for personal use. BNT says ok.

    BNT rides horse. Easy, uncomplicated ride.

    BNT emails friend and friend of friend that night and asks them in a fairly rude way to delete all the pictures.

    I mean the trainer doesn't use any questionable methods or didn't go into any serious work that would create unflattering pictures.

    Horse is not for sale and pictures where for personal use.

    Is that normal practice ? If you pay somebody to ride your horse and you pay a big chunk of money and you are a regular client, why not let you take pictures of your horse ?
    I don't get it.

  • #2
    Are the pictures up on the net somewhere?

    If yes, remove them quickly. Maybe the trainer doesn't want such publicity and be commented on his skills on different billboards.

    If not, just keep them for yourself and tell BNT that he will never hear or see those pictures anywhere. Be cautious not to brag around with the pictures, thats all.

    BUT I would probably be looking for another trainer. I can understand someone not wanting to have pictures of them all over the internet. But it is another thing to be rude about it, especially if the trainer had agreed in first
    place...
    Unless something triggered that sudden rude behavior?
    ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

    Originally posted by LauraKY
    I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
    HORSING mobile training app

    Comment


    • #3
      Although I don't think the trainer should have been rude (might be another side to this story), I can totally understand why he wouldn't want pictures on the internet. We've all seen awkward moments in pictures which were posted and went viral in horse chat rooms. Often the person riding the horse has not OK'd the photo (did the trainer see each photo?) and also does not have a chance to defend or explain. Money has nothing to do with this, it's about reputation and professionalism.
      "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" Richard Bach

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        The pictures are not posted anywhere and friend was not planning on posting them anywhere. She wanted some nice pictures of her horse looking pretty and being well ridden.
        She was planning on framing one of those and sent a couple to her friend who helped her to find the horse in Europe and show them to me, because we are really close and she let me ride her horse to get my bronze.

        When friend asked for permission to take pictures she said she would not put them on Facebook or any internet websites.

        The trainer sent the email in the evening after the ride.

        Comment


        • #5
          It's a violation of the "right of publicity." Sports figures (like BNTs) generate income by getting paid for the use of their picture. To protect this income, they do not allow anyone to get their picture for free.

          Read about the legal basis here:

          http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...keness-another
          "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mademoiselle View Post
            BNT emails friend and friend of friend that night and asks them in a fairly rude way to delete all the pictures.
            See line three of my signature. Honestly, they might not have meant to be rude, they might have just been taken off guard when seeing the pics online, etc., and had just emailed a blunt request (in their mind).

            Get beyond the feelings that it was rude and look at the reasons. Maybe they don't mind you keeping them for your own purposes, but like many people (especially women) maybe they just hate their own pictures. Even when riding a horse. We're all our own worst critic and seeing it online and thinking others will be looking at them and remarking on them might have just sent them into a very insecure place.

            You never know...

            Since you had permission before taking the photos, keep them. You didn't do anything wrong, and as long as there not being used for anything nefarious nor for public display, you can use them. There was no contract and you have no obligation to delete them. Just keep them private.
            "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              THE PICTURES WERE NEVER POSTED ONLINE ANYWHERE.

              BNT rode the horse mid afternoon. Owner gets home, goes out for diner. Gets back home to download pictures from camera to computer and gets email from trainer saying that she wants all the pictures to be deleted even for personal use (aka print and put in a frame). No explantion to why.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
                It's a violation of the "right of publicity." Sports figures (like BNTs) generate income by getting paid for the use of their picture. To protect this income, they do not allow anyone to get their picture for free.

                Read about the legal basis here:

                http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...keness-another
                OK so owner should have offered extra $ to hav e the right to take pictures. Didn't think about that. Ok could make sense.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sorry, I thought they looked at them online (in a private format).

                  I still say to keep the photos. You had permission. You aren't doing anything wrong or bad with them. They were about the horse. Crop the person's head off and just keep the horse.

                  Then they can NEVER complain, even if they ever saw one of the photos somewhere, someday in the distant future.

                  Seriously, as long as you do not make them public, they are your photos and you have the right to keep them. If the person were showing and you took photos you would absolutely have every right to do what you want with them. The photographer owns the photos and had verbal permission (not that it was even needed).
                  "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'd email the trainer back and ask why.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I still say, "Off with her head!"
                      "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
                        It's a violation of the "right of publicity." Sports figures (like BNTs) generate income by getting paid for the use of their picture. To protect this income, they do not allow anyone to get their picture for free.

                        Read about the legal basis here:

                        http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...keness-another
                        So I haven't gone through that entire link, but it seems to apply to commercial use, which the OP is not doing. She's using them for personal purposes, no money gained. I'm assuming that this took place on the BNT's personal property, which does give him the right to choose whether he wants pictures taken of him or not. He's not in the public, where you don't have an expectation of privacy. I just find it odd that he backed out afterward. I don't know, replace his body with Mickey Mouse Or you can take out his body like those riderless horse advertisements I used to see. Can't remember the company - dewormer, maybe?

                        Your horse is your property and you have a right to photograph your horse. If you're on private property, you don't have a right to photograph him without his permission. That is my understanding, but I am not a lawyer. I would definitely ask for an explanation. It's possible he got burned in the past, but I would have hoped that they would have said that upfront.
                        http://www.awolffphotography.com

                        "A man who dares to waste one hour of time has not discovered the value of life." -Charles Darwin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe he's Amish.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Whoever this trainer is, has had second thoughts for some odd reason. I tend to comply with peoples' wishes, but I sure would want to know why. It seemed ok when the pics were taken and then all of a sudden it is not ok. Something is very strange........
                            Bethe Mounce
                            Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                            https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                            Brentwood CA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It probably has nothing to do with you or this other person, so don't take it personally. Normally I would have no issue with this. But, I had a similar situation once, and the person ended up being a pyscho and using them to help do some really bad things in the long run. I'm not saying this has anything to do with you, but you can imagine what this trainer may have been through and what people have done to them--you get paranoid once you've encountered psychotic people. I get it. Don't take it personally.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by awolffphotog View Post
                                So I haven't gone through that entire link, but it seems to apply to commercial use, which the OP is not doing. She's using them for personal purposes, no money gained. I'm assuming that this took place on the BNT's personal property, which does give him the right to choose whether he wants pictures taken of him or not. He's not in the public, where you don't have an expectation of privacy. I just find it odd that he backed out afterward. I don't know, replace his body with Mickey Mouse Or you can take out his body like those riderless horse advertisements I used to see. Can't remember the company - dewormer, maybe?

                                Your horse is your property and you have a right to photograph your horse. If you're on private property, you don't have a right to photograph him without his permission. That is my understanding, but I am not a lawyer. I would definitely ask for an explanation. It's possible he got burned in the past, but I would have hoped that they would have said that upfront.
                                As we all know, digital photos can end up anywhere very easily these days. (cf. "sexting" photos.)

                                The "property right" in question doesn't apply to the horse or to the real estate. When we talk about the "property" to which the BNT has a right, it is her "likeness." As professional photographers should know, in all cases a written release or authorization form should be signed in which the person being photographed agrees to the photograph and to the specific purpose for which the photograph may be used or disseminated. Although the OP may have gotten permission to take the picture, my guess is that she did not get permission to send it to anyone else, so there is a problem right off the bat. Such a photo could end up anywhere (in an advertisment, for example) so permission should be obtained for a particular use. There is a good example of such a release form in the link that I posted.
                                "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by mademoiselle View Post
                                  The pictures are not posted anywhere and friend was not planning on posting them anywhere. She wanted some nice pictures of her horse looking pretty and being well ridden.
                                  She was planning on framing one of those and sent a couple to her friend who helped her to find the horse in Europe and show them to me, because we are really close and she let me ride her horse to get my bronze.

                                  Of course, I'm curious about the BNT's change of mind, too, but I think it's possible to separate the issues.

                                  Select the photo(s) in which the horse looks prettiest and crop them to make the rider a non-issue (unless his boots are very distinctive) for the framed photo.

                                  Alternatively, if you rode the horse to a Bronze, rewash, dress yourself up nice, and ride the horse pretty again
                                  *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Really starting to wonder how BN this BNT is....
                                    "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I would also write a polite email back asking why. I have probably written people quick emails that were interpreted as rude and not making a lot of sense, and would rather someone come ask me my rationale behind a statement as opposed to be offended by it and try to guess. There's a good chance it may have been misinterpreted or not come out how the BNT meant it to (although I'm an optimist like that). I've seen too many people get worked up about things that never should have been an issue to begin with, and most start in some form of writing (text, email, messenger, etc.). Good luck figuring it out!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        hmmm..

                                        I find all this "pictures are property" to be very shaky. I could be parked on the road and take pictures of this trainer riding, post them on my blog and I don't see what he/she could do about it. I understand the pix were taken during a lesson. But unless you were using them to sell the horse or in some other way make money, what's the big deal?

                                        And if my trainer was rude to me, I'd asked her for a meeting to discuss the situation.
                                        Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

                                        Comment

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