• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

I need a "forward!" pep talk

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I need a "forward!" pep talk

    So I love very forward horses. My horse is one on a normal day. However, if he feels anything "off" with me, he instead tries to babysit and drag his toes and move like a slug.

    Yesterday was one example, and I knew it was coming before I rode. It was windy and cold (well, the wind was cold) so my asthma was acting up. My inhaler was keeping me breathing ok, just not my normal breathing. My horse, being a saint about that sort of thing, decided it meant he had to go slowly and take care of me. (He still went each gait I requested, and as he seems to think trot lengthenings are a different gait than trot, he went right into them when requested, so certainly it was nothing wrong with him.)


    I need to talk myself into pushing for forward more when he's like that. He's trying to be a good boy, so certainly doesn't need punishment, and he WILL go more forward... if I talk myself into it. So please give me a "you're ruining your horse if you're not working him properly!" lecture to remind me to not be lazy even on the days he's not as forward as I'm used to. My trainer's too nice, and just nicely tells me to work on having him more forward all the time.
    Originally posted by Silverbridge
    If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

  • #2
    Cute story you've set up with horsey taking care of you when you aren't feeling well. Closer to the truth is that he's HAPPY you're low energy because it means he doesn't really have to work!

    Don't let him take advantage of you that way. He goes forward, every ride. He isn't a magikal pony who helps the sick and ailing. He's a LAZY pony.

    Leg. Then whip. Repeat.
    2007 Welsh Cob C X TB GG Eragon
    Our training journal.
    1989-2008 French TB Shamus Fancy
    I owned him for fifteen years, but he was his own horse.

    Comment


    • #3
      You're the jockey. Its you're decision what kind of ride you have.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by SisterToSoreFoot View Post
        Don't let him take advantage of you that way. He goes forward, every ride. He isn't a magikal pony who helps the sick and ailing. He's a LAZY pony.
        Exactly what I need to be "yelled" at and told, thanks!


        I know how to get forward. I know how to demand it. I just have to keep the above mindset and make myself do it!
        Originally posted by Silverbridge
        If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

        Comment


        • #5
          Is he lazy?

          I don't think there's anything wrong with a horse that wants to work with you and doesn't ignore you. Personally, I am grateful that my mare can feel when I'm a bit off-balance and was trained (and chooses to) move under me to restore balance.

          If your horse promptly responds to your request to become more forward, isn't that enough? That said, there's nothing wrong with having a higher expectation for both of you - you as the asker, he as the responder.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SisterToSoreFoot View Post
            Closer to the truth is that he's HAPPY you're low energy because it means he doesn't really have to work!
            Don't let him take advantage of you that way. ...He's a LAZY pony.
            Leg. Then whip. Repeat.
            This statement is a bit depressing to me. I find that horses enjoy work and being ridden . It should be fun for them, and I find having a negative mindset like above is more stifling than the OP's perception.

            OP I'd dissect a bit more how your energy, and more importantly, your breathing effects your equitation. A lack of breath is a lack of "energy flow" throughout the body. you may find that when you are not breathing from deep down in your belly that perhaps you activate a retarding leg in your thigh, or you turn your toes out, or slouch and lose bit connection.
            Use it as an opportunity to look at how to overcome those moments within YOU, and not how to whack your horse into a numbness to precision.
            www.destinationconsensusequus.com
            chaque pas est fait ensemble

            Comment


            • #7
              I think your horse is taking care of you.

              It surely sounds like if you step up your energy and focus he is completely agreeable.

              Disagree that whupping up on an agreeable horse because the rider is feeling like crap and not fully engaged with the ride is a) fair b) beneficial.

              Maybe on days you aren't feeling all that great, you go out for a trail ride or do something low key where you can appreciate your good pal. You might also want to experiment around a little bit with how changing your breathing changes how your horse goes. Exhaling into your up transitions often makes them much more fluid.

              Good luck.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                OP I'd dissect a bit more how your energy, and more importantly, your breathing effects your equitation. A lack of breath is a lack of "energy flow" throughout the body. you may find that when you are not breathing from deep down in your belly that perhaps you activate a retarding leg in your thigh, or you turn your toes out, or slouch and lose bit connection.
                Use it as an opportunity to look at how to overcome those moments within YOU, and not how to whack your horse into a numbness to precision.

                Very good point. Guaranteed I was slouching more and probably reverting to leaning forward more. For sure I wasn't holding up contact as well as I should.


                I'd never actually whack my horse into submission - he's by far the easiest horse I've ever worked with as far as improving, desire to work most of the time, etc. It tends to feel like cheating, which is why I don't demand forward ALL the time and use "he's taking care of me" as reason not to. I'm sure my riding is at fault, but he should be forward anyway.

                I believe if I just think "no, we ARE going forward today!" that we'll probably be forward because of how my attitude will affect my riding, no whacking or reprimanding needed.

                Originally posted by MontanaDun View Post
                I think your horse is taking care of you.

                It surely sounds like if you step up your energy and focus he is completely agreeable.

                Disagree that whupping up on an agreeable horse because the rider is feeling like crap and not fully engaged with the ride is a) fair b) beneficial.

                Maybe on days you aren't feeling all that great, you go out for a trail ride or do something low key where you can appreciate your good pal. You might also want to experiment around a little bit with how changing your breathing changes how your horse goes. Exhaling into your up transitions often makes them much more fluid.

                Good luck.
                I have a tendency to vertigo - and on those days, he has made some very interesting maneuvers to stay under me when it hit. I dismount asap when it happens, because that's asking a lot out of him to expect him to keep me on his back! So he *definitely* does try to take care of me when needed. He then gets copious turnout, and I have a friend or my trainer ride him if it lasts a few days.

                I basically felt ok yesterday, but am not as strong when I've had to use my inhaler (thus the guarantee on my posture, and I would expect different leg use as well, though he generally doesn't need much leg to keep forward going.) Interesting thoughts on my thighs possibly restricting forward, too. I tend to doubt that because downward transitions from my seat/legs still happened immediately, not as if there were muddling of signals, but it's something I'll pay attention to!


                As I drove to work this morning I noticed dust obscuring all the mountains around town, so I expect to have to take this advice to heart tonight, too!
                Originally posted by Silverbridge
                If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                  This statement is a bit depressing to me. I find that horses enjoy work and being ridden . It should be fun for them, and I find having a negative mindset like above is more stifling than the OP's perception.
                  ditto.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by netg View Post
                    Very good point. Guaranteed I was slouching more and probably reverting to leaning forward more. For sure I wasn't holding up contact as well as I should.

                    ...

                    I'm sure my riding is at fault, but he should be forward anyway.

                    I believe if I just think "no, we ARE going forward today!" that we'll probably be forward because of how my attitude will affect my riding, no whacking or reprimanding needed.
                    It's always easier to blame the horse. Look to yourself first, and then see what's left to "fix." Might not be much, at all.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stryder View Post
                      Is he lazy?

                      I don't think there's anything wrong with a horse that wants to work with you and doesn't ignore you. Personally, I am grateful that my mare can feel when I'm a bit off-balance and was trained (and chooses to) move under me to restore balance.

                      If your horse promptly responds to your request to become more forward, isn't that enough? That said, there's nothing wrong with having a higher expectation for both of you - you as the asker, he as the responder.
                      I don't think he's lazy either, the level of partnership (or the type of horse who just does it naturally of their own accord, regardless) where a horse will self-adjust to suit you is to be rewarded, not punished and considered lazy. I appreciate it when my horses self-adjust. When my high-energy, spunky, playful 6yo TB takes care of the 7yo on his back, or when he picks up the slack between jumps if I make a mistake...or when my mom's 6yo TB strides out with a high level of impulsion for me, but then instantly reduces his impulsion to suit her (lower) confidence and experience level, or that of his two novice lessees. I was injured at the track but still had to ride my Quarab on the track (ponying) nonetheless - I can tell you those first few days especially I appreciated his adjusting to help me out! I literally dragged myself into the saddle (I could barely walk, let alone ride or saddle/mount my horse) - he stood stock-still and didn't jar me on the ride, taking care of me every step of the way when I needed it. I wouldn't punish your horse for acting like a partner or he'll stop acting like a partner - slowly, in all ways.

                      Maybe he IS lazy and just taking advantage. In that case, learn to be more assertive (but fairly). By your description though OP, it sounds more like he is taking care of you. I wouldn't punish that trait (though based on your OP you do not intend to, just mentioning it since others have responded to punish), though you CAN ask him for more forward if you figure you are okay. Sort of a "thanks bud for taking care of me but I'm okay, I got it!" I think the key too is to look within - not to push him forward but to adjust yourself so he feels okay to move out.

                      Besides that, I would try exercises such as the point-to-point I've suggested on other threads (courtesy of Jonathan Field). Halt at one specific point in the arena, then ask (in phases) for him to move out to another specific point in the arena (loooong lines as opposed to short ones, which will install more woah on a horse with too much go). Do NOT nag in between and when he gets to Point B, halt exactly on the spot you selected. The longer he takes to get there (ie, the more he drags his toes), the longer he rests. Then turn and ask for Point B (2) and so forth. Be assertive in your phases, but release as soon as he is doing the gait you ask for - only correct if he drops the gait, not if he goes slow within the gait. The goal is reverse psychology and to offer him a guaranteed incentive (ie, rest) - when he can anticipate the reward, he will try harder. Transitions and changes in pace within a gait (say, on a 20m circle, PREDICTABLE transitions within the trot) will also increase impulsion. I've never had BOTH of the above exercises - if done properly, not work on ANY horse to increase impulsion. Besides that, I might wiggle a dressage whip at a hind - a sort of "thanks bud, but this is actually what I want - thanks!". Any of the above will rev him up a little and let him know it's okay to add impulsion. If he's really set on helping you out and just won't step out, I'd focus more on the cue such as wiggling your dressage whip, and focusing on correcting yourself most.
                      ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                      ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Upon reading more of your (later) explanation OP, I have to continue to side with the others and the other suggestions too. Definitely sounds like a horse in sync with you, which is GOOD. Focus on yourself. Maybe use some of the exercises mentioned in addition. Take it easy on days you feel bad - take him out on a hack over hills (granted you have them) to maintain and further build his level of fitness while toning down the demands of the actual work involved (which will maybe even more easily allow you to focus and correct YOU). It's just about finding that balance when working together and learning how to tell him it's okay and you still want him to move out.

                        I think it's great you consider your horse's perspective as well - that is what it is all about. Considering what HE thinks, wants, needs, and finding that balance.
                        ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                        ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by naturalequus View Post
                          I think it's great you consider your horse's perspective as well - that is what it is all about. Considering what HE thinks, wants, needs, and finding that balance.
                          With his exceptional mind, I would be a fool not to! He's not actually lazy, but thinking of him as lazy will help me adjust myself as I need to. It takes more determination on my part to ride well if I don't feel as perfect!


                          Why I say he's not lazy: I'm guessing he runs about 15 miles a week on his own. I turn him out, and he gallops. It's an estimate based on how much time he spends galloping and the knowledge he wasn't the best race horse, but was intended for distance. When he sees me coming, he leaves his hay to stick his head over the fence and hold his halter out to me. Definitely more interested in work than food! And he practices dressage after finishing his runs. He has a set leg yield/haunches in/shoulder in sequence he repeats on long sides. Then he starts practicing transitions between working and extended trot across diagonals. Definitely not averse to work or forward!
                          Originally posted by Silverbridge
                          If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OP, you're not alone. I got a butt-kicking at my lesson on Monday for the remarkable lack of forward I've installed in the mare. (If you want the grisly details, here you go: http://collectingtbs.com/2011/02/07/go-forward-now/ ) In a nutshell, my trainer got after me because I was having to kill myself to establish and maintain a good forward trot. I was panting, the mare? la la la, what? there's a human on my back? I hadn't noticed. La la la.

                            I have systematically uninstalled my forward gears over the last few months, as I've been focusing on other things like fixing my leg position, getting the confidence to trot without stirrups, and recovering from a bout of bronchitis that has compromised my breathing and endurance. So, I feel you.

                            Luckily for me, the mare is sensitive. A well timed pop with the whip when she ignores a more polite request for a more forward attitude will likely be all I need. That, and the intestinal fortitude to administer said pop, though the mare has a long track record of being very reasonable when she does get the (very) occasional smack.

                            For what it's worth, my post about forward elicited a number of comments from others with a similar problem. We are not alone!
                            Don't wrassle with a hog. You just get dirty, and the hog likes it.

                            Collecting Thoroughbreds - tales of a re-rider and some TBs

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by netg View Post
                              Very good point. Guaranteed I was slouching more and probably reverting to leaning forward more. For sure I wasn't holding up contact as well as I should.
                              Every bone, muscle and nerve of your body tells your horse something while you are riding.

                              Originally posted by netg View Post

                              ... but he should be forward anyway.
                              Why should he ignore your equitative request to slow down, albeit a subconscious one? It's already amazing enough they can feel through wood, steel, leather and sheepskin what your minute muscles are doing; I think its a stretch for them to realize when you don't mean what you are communicating to them as well.

                              Originally posted by netg View Post
                              I believe if I just think "no, we ARE going forward today!" that we'll probably be forward because of how my attitude will affect my riding, no whacking or reprimanding needed.
                              Your attitude effects your equitation. Always visualize success instead of preparing for correction.... but it sounds like you are already in understanding of that
                              www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                              chaque pas est fait ensemble

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by netg View Post
                                With his exceptional mind, I would be a fool not to! He's not actually lazy, but thinking of him as lazy will help me adjust myself as I need to. It takes more determination on my part to ride well if I don't feel as perfect!


                                Why I say he's not lazy: I'm guessing he runs about 15 miles a week on his own. I turn him out, and he gallops. It's an estimate based on how much time he spends galloping and the knowledge he wasn't the best race horse, but was intended for distance. When he sees me coming, he leaves his hay to stick his head over the fence and hold his halter out to me. Definitely more interested in work than food! And he practices dressage after finishing his runs. He has a set leg yield/haunches in/shoulder in sequence he repeats on long sides. Then he starts practicing transitions between working and extended trot across diagonals. Definitely not averse to work or forward!
                                I find we can also develop an exceptional mind by considering the horse. This is a partnership, not a dictatorship. When the horse feels its needs, wants, dignity etc are respected it will respond favourably in return.

                                Hah, I actually recall reading I think it was your latest post about him practising said exercises in his pasture! Scary thought! Makes me think that maybe I'm more right than I realise when I joke the horse must have been practising in their pasture/paddock between sessions... They are so much more intelligent than we give them credit for sometimes and if we only give them the opportunity (ie, via correct schooling and treating them respectfully and as a partner), they flourish.
                                ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                                ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by naturalequus View Post
                                  I find we can also develop an exceptional mind by considering the horse. This is a partnership, not a dictatorship. When the horse feels its needs, wants, dignity etc are respected it will respond favourably in return.
                                  Well put.

                                  OP, you've said your horse looks forward to working with you, he seems willing to work hard, he's sensitive to your changing condition. How blessed you are, to have a partner who is tuned in to you and hasn't shut down because of an overbearing rider.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    It is a dictatorship, you are the dictator. I doubt he is feeling your illness, what he is feeling is your lack ot committment to his forward motion, and taking advantage of it. If the horse were really taking care of you, he would be more forward on your asthma days so you would have to work less hard to get him to go, and use up less energy/breath.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                                      This statement is a bit depressing to me. I find that horses enjoy work and being ridden . It should be fun for them, and I find having a negative mindset like above is more stifling than the OP's perception.
                                      Lighten up. She was asking for a peptalk and what I said in partly tongue-in-cheek. I still maintain that horses, even if they like the work, need strong leaders to really sparkle. They don't do it on their own. Horses can have fun and still be pushed to do better work.
                                      2007 Welsh Cob C X TB GG Eragon
                                      Our training journal.
                                      1989-2008 French TB Shamus Fancy
                                      I owned him for fifteen years, but he was his own horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by mickeydoodle View Post
                                        It is a dictatorship, you are the dictator. I doubt he is feeling your illness, what he is feeling is your lack ot committment to his forward motion, and taking advantage of it. If the horse were really taking care of you, he would be more forward on your asthma days so you would have to work less hard to get him to go, and use up less energy/breath.
                                        For some, obviously. I still accomplish what I need and want - successfully - without a dictatorship. So do many others. There is a fine line between assertiveness (ie, leadership) within a partnership and oppressing a horse.

                                        Why would a horse have more impulsion if it feels its rider lagging behind the motion/slouching/just plain old NQR?? He's not sitting their contemplating how hard his rider has to breathe lmao ...he's responding to his rider's projections.
                                        ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                                        ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X