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Photo added- pg 3- What would you do with a GORGEOUS, unregistered andalusian filly?

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  • Photo added- pg 3- What would you do with a GORGEOUS, unregistered andalusian filly?

    This is a very long story. I purchased a very lovely purebred andalusian filly from a breeder- ironically, to help save her farm from default, and because she regretted selling the filly almost immediately things went downhill between us very quickly. Looooong story. This is the second horse I have purchased from this breeder. I have email documentation of the whole transaction. Even though the IALHA is aware of the situation and sympathetic, they cannot and will not intervene. The breeder will not answer phone calls or emails. Part of the deal was that she would receive the first foal from this filly; which I would completely honor, but she won't respond to any attempts we have made to contact her. So, bottom line is- I have this now 3 yr old filly, I am in love with this filly. She will never be sold regardless. But I am trying to decide which route to take with her-
    Breeding her... her babies would be registered only as half andalusians even though they would actually be purebred.
    Showing her... she has HUGE, though baroque type movement (paddling). How is baroque type movement looked at by (non baroque) dressage judges? Is it considered a fault?
    If nothing else she will be with us forever and we will just trail ride her and enjoy her. She is an absolute love. Which direction would you take with this girl?
    Last edited by springer; Feb. 1, 2011, 08:59 PM.

  • #2
    Well, the first thing I would do is send certified letter to the breeder, demnding the ppers on the filly, or you will file in smll clims court. Then file in small clims. It's inexpensive to file, plus you don't need lwyer.

    Then I would mke decision bsed on tht.

    Pddling, if it's extreme might get you penalized, but otherwise, from wht I hve been told, If everything else is just fine the pddling won't be considered relly. I'm sure it depends on the judge. My filly is hlf-Lusitno, so she doesn't pddle (Luso's tend not to pddle).

    But in ny cse, I would hve her strted in dressge. Even if you do breed her, tht trining will help her out in cse she ever MUST be sold, like if something hppens to you.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would definitely have her started in dressage. As to the breeding...do you really need to?

      Also, Hampton Bay, what happened to your a's? Or is it just my computer?

      Comment


      • #4
        I would certainly train her in dressage, and show her some and see what happens. (Or, send her to me and I'll show her for you)

        Personally I think broodies only have a real risk factor- what if you get sick/ other catastrophe? If she is not 'useful' as a riding horse she may end up in a bad way. It is like insurance to have her be trained for some sort of job.

        Comment


        • #5
          Paddling is not really a fault in movement as long as it doesn't interfere with the ability to extend the gaits. If she has an extreme paddle, the judges won't look at it favorably - because it affects the function of the gait (for extension, and possibly for interference and even injury). But if it isn't extreme, most judges won't comment - in the USDF DSHB program, they are quite clear that paddling is not a fault as long as it doesn't interfere with the functionality of the gait.

          I think Hmpton is right - you may have to persue the registration issue in court, ugh, but at least you can get her going and ride and show her. What a shame to run into a breeder like that

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hampton Bay View Post
            Well, the first thing I would do is send certified letter to the breeder, demnding the ppers on the filly, or you will file in smll clims court. Then file in small clims. It's inexpensive to file, plus you don't need lwyer.

            Then I would mke decision bsed on tht.

            Pddling, if it's extreme might get you penalized, but otherwise, from wht I hve been told, If everything else is just fine the pddling won't be considered relly. I'm sure it depends on the judge. My filly is hlf-Lusitno, so she doesn't pddle (Luso's tend not to pddle).

            But in ny cse, I would hve her strted in dressge. Even if you do breed her, tht trining will help her out in cse she ever MUST be sold, like if something hppens to you.
            ^^ what does it say?
            "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF

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            • #7
              Was she DNA'd? (Lips are - I do not know about Andys)? Maybe you can use the DNA t prove your case and get papers?
              L

              Comment


              • #8
                I would train her for dressage and ride and show her.

                The papers would be nice. Without papers, I would not breed her until and unless she becomes a performance superstar.

                This breeder who wants the first foal from her seems to be shooting herself in the foot if she won't allow registration. The breeder is also missing out on a chance to get credit for her program producing this nice filly.
                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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                • #9
                  Let's face it, a proven mare with a show record will always throw a higher priced baby than one that sat around in a pasture with an unproven pedigree.
                  you like her, she's your horse, go ride her.
                  www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                  chaque pas est fait ensemble

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CatOnLap View Post
                    ^^ what does it say?
                    Apparently HB's only allowed one "a" per post.

                    Originally Posted by Hampton Bay
                    Well, the first thing I would do is send a certified letter to the breeder, demanding the papers on the filly, or you will file in small claims court. Then file in small claims. It's inexpensive to file, plus you don't need a lawyer.

                    Then I would make a decision based on that.

                    Paddling, if it's extreme might get you penalized, but otherwise, from what I have been told, If everything else is just fine the paddling won't be considered really. I'm sure it depends on the judge. My filly is half-Lusitano, so she doesn't paddle (Luso's tend not to paddle).

                    But in any case, I would have her started in dressage. Even if you do breed her, that training will help her out in case she ever MUST be sold, like if something happens to you.
                    Last edited by RedHorses; Jan. 30, 2011, 12:05 PM. Reason: missed an "a"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RedHorses View Post
                      Apparently HB's only allowed one "a" per post.
                      My "s" key broke once where you had to hit it really hard to make it work. It was so obnoxious most of the time I wrote without it and let my computer auto-correct!

                      I would agree with the others and ride her!
                      No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill
                      For Hope, For Strength, For Life-Delta Gamma
                      www.etsy.com/shop/joiedevivrecrafts Custom Wreaths and Other Decorations

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                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        [quote=poltroon;5391573]I would train her for dressage and ride and show her.

                        The papers would be nice. Without papers, I would not breed her until and unless she becomes a performance superstar.

                        This breeder who wants the first foal from her seems to be shooting herself in the foot if she won't allow registration. The breeder is also missing out on a chance to get credit for her program producing this nice filly.[/quote

                        Yes, she is definitely doing herself a disservice. Not just with this filly, but the other horse I purchased from her. My dressage trainer recently purchased him and he is turning into a little dressage superstar. She is also withholding paperwork on him, and I've owned him and raised him since he was a weanling. (he is now 5 yrs old) He was purchased with the understanding I didn't have papers on him; he is that special. But she will get no recognition when he goes on to show at rated dressage shows this year.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by springer View Post
                          Yes, she is definitely doing herself a disservice. Not just with this filly, but the other horse I purchased from her. My dressage trainer recently purchased him and he is turning into a little dressage superstar. She is also withholding paperwork on him, and I've owned him and raised him since he was a weanling. (he is now 5 yrs old) He was purchased with the understanding I didn't have papers on him; he is that special. But she will get no recognition when he goes on to show at rated dressage shows this year.
                          You're surprised that she's withholding the papers on the second horse when she did the exact same thing on the first?

                          Don't breed her until you get a good show record on her. Because as it stands, she's just a pretty grade mare standing in the pasture. Sorry, that's how it is. YOU know she has papers, but no one else does. Everyone thinks my (registered, papered) Quarter Horse is an Andalusian, just because he was a stud so has a thicker build and a snorty attitude, plus he's grey.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Have you looked into PRE? I'm not familiar with their 'thing', (my horses are IALHA), but maybe you could go that route if perhaps the stud was approved with them?...

                            At any rate, definitely train her and put some miles on her. She will make you a lovely little horse. Then if you decide to breed, do it for yourself.
                            I LOVE my Chickens!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My keybord is broken. Sorry, hopefully someone cn piece it together.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Hampton Bay View Post
                                My keybord is broken. Sorry, hopefully someone cn piece it together.
                                Don't worry HB, I got your drift!

                                Thanks for the advice- I like the idea of a registered letter. The problem is that she never even bothered to register my filly's DAM. Some breeder, huh? Although the dam is very well bred herself and she owns both of HER parents. I don't think anyone can force her to do that though. Unfortunately I have nothing in writing from her gauranteeing papers. It was assumed.
                                I guess the only hope I have is that she will be forced to sell all of her horses and someone more professional and ethical will become their new owners.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  But what about the "Give me your firstborn" part? Is there a way to get around that or did I miss something? It would really stink to have her bred and then possibly lose the baby to this um, woman.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Mrs.ChickenBritches View Post
                                    But what about the "Give me your firstborn" part? Is there a way to get around that or did I miss something? It would really stink to have her bred and then possibly lose the baby to this um, woman.
                                    That's easy. Unless there's something in writing saying when she has to breed her she can hold out as long as she wants. I wouldn't breed her without a show record. As someone else pointed out, you know the truth but to everyone else she has no pedigree. You should probably start making decisions from that perspective because the breeder is such a fruitbat.

                                    Of course, that might not matter because unless it's somewhere in writing (I realize you have an email thread, but you didn't specify what was covered in those emails) the breeder can't claim that foal, just like you can't force the breeder to register her mother and then her. Hate to say it, but at this point registration kind of sounds like a lost cause.

                                    But the silver lining is you've got yourself a nice girl who you can enjoy thoroughly. If you want to train her to be the next best dressage horse, go for it! If you want her to be a pleasure/trail horse, that's great! Stop worrying about what you should do with her based on the breeder and start thinking about what you want from her. That's what matters

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Paddling is considered a fault in breeding stock.

                                      The best you can do is as stated above, send registered letter to the original owner. Meantime, since ILAHA does DNA type every purebred, contact the Gluck (or whoever they use to test) center to have the mare DNA typed.

                                      Usually, if seller does not submit transfer and you happen to submit a bill of sale plus genetic result, the registrar has to take notice and do something about it.
                                      Kelly
                                      It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I would certain get her performance along to 2nd level before I bred her regardless of whether or not you get the papers. If you cannot get the papers after the legal attempt that was suggested by someone else, then if you do breed her later on, you might consider an Arabian cross. Half-Arabians have more doors open to them than half-Andies.

                                        Comment

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