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A Video for Lovers of Baroque Classical Dressage

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  • A Video for Lovers of Baroque Classical Dressage

    This is an interview with one of the riders of the Portuguese School of Equestrian Art. It is about 30 minutes long, so carve out some time for it, maybe with a glass of wine. Lots of inside looks at the school, the horses, training, and riding.

    http://vimeo.com/17887476

    At the end of the video, there is a frank discussion about the poor state of the School and the need to upgrade it.

    Note that this is a series of videos about the Lusitano horse and training in Portugal. Look at the side bar and you will see many more, including one by a close friend of Nuno Oliveira.
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

  • #2
    Tribuna Lusitana (where your video was sourced from)always has fantastic programs listed
    Right now the site has an interview with Juan Manuel Munoz, the rider of Fuego
    http://www.tribunalusitana.com/progr...nglish-version
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble

    Comment


    • #3
      I admit to being an eventer but by that very nature I do some dressage too. But I have a question regarding this video.
      Is not the horse's poll supposed to be the highest point? This horse is broken at about C3, not the poll.
      And it obviously behind the vertical?
      And the mouth gapes at times.

      Please educate me?

      Comment


      • #4
        That is not horsemanship.
        Overbent and behind the vertical is against the horse and the rules.
        Also, the dependency upon the curb is horrible.
        www.hartetoharte.org
        Ask and allow, do not demand and force.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks, Mike, for sharing this. I've become a subscriber so I can watch all the videos.

          Meghan, keep in mind that these are stallions in the videos and their thick crests create the illusion that the poll is not the highest point. Imagine the horse is a mare, or a Thoroughbred with a slimmer neck. You'll see that the poll is correctly placed, once you perform a "crestectomy" in your mind's eye.

          If these fellows were ridden with the poll higher than their crests, they would be well and truly upside down and hollow.

          So far I have only watched the first 8 or so minutes of this episode, and while some horses SOME of the time had their noses BTV, most of the time the nose was on the vertical. For horses like these, collection is easy -- they are born and bred to do it. If collection is easy, so is "overcollection", if you will, but in the early scenes, the horses are light, forward, obedient. That's a greater proof of correct work than attempting to judge against a static (drawn or photographed) idea.

          Did not notice gaping mouths, except perhaps in the horses performing Airs Above the Ground -- but will study the film in greater depth once I have it downloaded.

          Thought the riders positions were exemplary and I would give my left ovary to ride one of those horses! I especially enjoyed seeing the lady rider aside in an opening scene.

          Very cool!

          Comment


          • #6
            Meghan--Beasmom is right. I skimmed through the whole thing, and especially that Rubi is beautiful--relaxed, through, calm, powerful. I didn't quite get it, but I believe that's why the German rider bought him to compete GP. The other rides were more like the Lippizanner exhibition rides. They are not overbent, and you can clearly see they were not hanging on the curb. Jeese, Spirit, are you just making this up?

            Comment


            • #7
              EGADS

              Originally posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
              Jeese, Spirit, are you just making this up?
              As usual, there are those who just will not admit when something being presented is not correct.

              I have taken the time to review the entire piece which is shows Cavalho riding Rubi. There are ten sections of this horse and rider combination and in each one the poll is not the highest point and the nose is 90% behind the vertical.
              Do not even bother with the stallion crest stuff because you can clearly see the top line of the neck muscles and the poll, {the immediate area at the base of the ears}is not the highest point.

              The horse is a brilliant mover and wonderful to watch, however, that can not be the foundation for a dressage presentation, which, must singularly meet the stipulated descriptions contained in the rules.
              www.hartetoharte.org
              Ask and allow, do not demand and force.

              Comment


              • #8
                I just finished watching the whole film and did not see gaping mouths. Meghan, can you tell me where you noticed this?

                I was most impressed with the gentleman who demonstrated work on the curb only -- he rode with the whip held vertically in his hand in the style of the old masters. The contact was light, as was the horse.

                Agree with BTDT, this work is most correct. These are Baroque horses. This is what they are bred to do. They do have heavier, "crestier" necks than the Warmbloods and TB's that most of us are used to. I doubt these horses are seen much in eventing. Not that they couldn't do it, but they are not purpose bred for it.

                Keep in mind, Meghan, that it is the position of the BONY structures of the neck and poll that are important, not the illusion created by the musculature of a powerful horse's neck. If it were possible to X-ray Rubi's neck, we'd all be able to see that his neckbones, poll and skull are in the correct positions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Pshaw. Spirit making things up again. Clearly never ridden or seen rides, or seeing things with special "goggles." Guess that's why the German bought the horse to ride competative GP. Trained ALL wrong. Sigh. Keep talking to yourself. No clue.

                  Comment


                  • #10


                    I'm kinda sad to hear the horse will not go on to compete for Portugal in 2012 -- the rider seemed to have high hopes and aspirations that direction.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Baroque

                      We should give up with this guy. He cant understand.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by spirithorse View Post
                        That is not horsemanship.
                        Overbent and behind the vertical is against the horse and the rules.
                        Also, the dependency upon the curb is horrible.
                        It must be tiring to constantly be so negative. Perhaps you could show us an example of a horse and rider meeting your requirements?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Don Raphaelo Rollkurista/nomeolvides

                          Apparently neither of you are able to understand the very clearly stipulated descriptions contained in the rules.

                          To enhance what your eyes are observing:
                          Apply a grid overlay to the video, this will help you clearly see the vertical and horizontal lines. Then you might be able to comprehend why the presentation is incorrect.
                          www.hartetoharte.org
                          Ask and allow, do not demand and force.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Spirithorse, it's been explained to you politely multiple times on this thread why the horse in the video is correct, so I don't see the point of me repeating it. You are only making it easier and easier to spot how you have obtained your information, and sadly displaying your lack of education. I sincerely hope one day soon you realize the holes in your education are holding you back as an equestrian, and are able to move forward.
                            Believe me, years from now you will read your responses and be embarrassed.
                            www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                            chaque pas est fait ensemble

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                              Spirithorse, it's been explained to you politely multiple times on this thread why the horse in the video is correct, .
                              Correct by individual' opinions, however, it is not correct pursuant to the descriptions contained in the rules. Therefore, I feel sorry for the horses because the riders who force their horses to work in this frame are not working in the best interest of the horse.
                              www.hartetoharte.org
                              Ask and allow, do not demand and force.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                                Spirithorse, it's been explained to you politely multiple times on this thread why the horse in the video is correct, so I don't see the point of me repeating it. You are only making it easier and easier to spot how you have obtained your information, and sadly displaying your lack of education. I sincerely hope one day soon you realize the holes in your education are holding you back as an equestrian, and are able to move forward.
                                Believe me, years from now you will read your responses and be embarrassed.
                                This

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Baroque

                                  Spirithorse. Even if your observations were valid, the "rules" apply to dreesage tests, in shows, there are no "rules" that apply to training. Since you dont like deep frames you have to admit there is no forward and downward in FEI tests. Should that be stopped in the schooling of FEI horses since the "rules" you keep refering to dont include stretching in the GP tests? The sorry thing is that this Portuguese rider has been trained in the classical manner and not in the modern schoool you seem to scorn and you dont even know it.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by spirithorse View Post
                                    Correct by individual' opinions, however, it is not correct pursuant to the descriptions contained in the rules. Therefore, I feel sorry for the horses because the riders who force their horses to work in this frame are not working in the best interest of the horse.
                                    Let's try this. Since the poll position and neck seem to be the big debate here, I've gone to google and selected some side shots of horses in work, heck you can pick your own shots if you want. Using paint or you could even print the pictures and draw on them, draw the neck vertebra where you think they are in these photos, and post the pictures. Then there will be no confusion between what we see and what you see. I am in no way implying all the photos are of horses in correct or incorrect postures, I'm just looking for a clearer picture of what you are perceiving.
                                    http://www.lusitano-horse.com/img/lusitano-horse.jpg
                                    http://sites.google.com/site/jesuspi...ffe%208-09.jpg
                                    http://www.horsejunction.co.za/embed...2665/92665.jpg
                                    http://www.equinemagnetic.com/images/CalVHCTrot.jpg
                                    http://img.webring.com/r/a/andalusianstalli/logo
                                    http://www.eponaspain.com/archivos/c...36_gallito.jpg
                                    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                                    chaque pas est fait ensemble

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by spirithorse View Post
                                      Correct by individual' opinions, however, it is not correct pursuant to the descriptions contained in the rules. Therefore, I feel sorry for the horses because the riders who force their horses to work in this frame are not working in the best interest of the horse.
                                      yeah... another case of mistreated horse...

                                      @Petstorejunkie : you've forgot this one : http://www.hartetoharte.org/Cavallettis__3_.jpg

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Baroque

                                        How can anyone say that anything Rubi was doing was forced?

                                        Comment

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