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Opinions Please - Training 2 Video

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  • Opinions Please - Training 2 Video

    THREAD CLOSED.

    Thanks to those that provided constructive criticism.
    Last edited by paintlady; Dec. 25, 2010, 06:31 PM.

  • #2
    Congrats! it's always fun to be somewhere you didn't think you'd be!!! lol

    One show hint I will give you- is when you are riding around the outside of the ring and the bell sounds, be sure you are already traveling in the direction you will once you are inside the ring. You did this for the intro test, but not the training test. That way-even though you have the stop and salute in there - your outside rein will continue thru the mini warm up and into the show ring.
    Also- don't be afraid to canter around the outside of the ring- assuming you can do it controlled and calmly... It can be a nice way to loosen up your horse just before getting in the ring.

    The other thing I noticed is that your horse's haunches are falling in when trotting to the right... I'm not sure what gymnastic excersices your trainer has you doing, but at your horse's level shoulder fore (not shoulder in!) will help to develop some strength and activity in the hind end. There are other excersices as well and lateral work in general will help build strength, but stick with those movements which don't require a great deal of collection, like the leg yield.

    I think you two look like a promising pair! =) And I love the fact that you are trying something new together! Good Luck!

    Comment


    • #3
      Your stirrups are waaay tooo long. Take them up at least two holes.

      You are driving your mare too fast. Let her slow down some so there is enough time for her to keep her rear end under her. Think about posting more up and down. As you come down into the saddle, you will be pushing a button that is under the saddle, which will bring the mare forward into your hands.

      The previous poster mentioned that your horse is crooked. I'll agree with that, but correcting a crooked horse at this level is an art. In everything you do, the horse's haunches will be falling toward the left side and the shoulders will be dropping away from you toward the right. You need to help the horse compensate, and at this level, you need to do so by releasing a rein forward and up while stepping in the diagonal stirrup a tad more. With your horse, it needs to be the right rein released and more weight into your left stirrup...both directions of the ring. I cannot help you from here with the timing as this really takes someone right beside you, giving the instruction until you get the hand of it. I can tell you that the timing is slightly different depending on which direction you are traveling. The timing needs to happen at the point the diagonal of right fore/left hind is moving forward if that is any help. But to understand the timing, you must be able to feel when that is happening.

      Let's take an example at which you can look. Go to about 3:14 to about 3:32 on the tape. Stop the tape several times in succession during that segment. Do you see how you are trying to lead the horse's shoulders more to the right using your right rein? That is totally the wrong thing to do. Those shoulders are already too much to the right. What needs to happen is that the horse must bend more honestly toward her left side. To achieve that, momentarily release and slightly raise the right rein. At the same moment, bend your torso slightly more toward you left side, which "takes" the left rein back a bit, and adds weight to your left stirrup....if the stirrups are correct...which they are not.

      Stop the tape at the 3:32 mark. Look now at your right foot rather than just the right rein. Do you see how there is no way that you can keep the weight on the rear edge of your stirrup because it is too far away from you? You need to be able to keep the weight of your foot on the rear edge of your stirrup for all forward motion.

      This especially is killing you for your trot/canter transitions. You are getting your outside leg too far back, and in that same toe-downward position. That kills the canter as it puts too much of your weight forward onto the horse's inside shoulder. It cannot rise properly.

      You need to work on your canter seat, itself. Right now, you are pumping. The canter needs you to be more stable in the saddle, because the very nature of the gait is unstable...easy to disrupt its balance. Round your seat under you so that as you move with the horse, your seat stays on the saddle. Do not let it flop on each stride.

      Your mare is really a jewel. She has more to offer than this tape shows. What a sweety! Keep trying!

      Comment


      • #4
        Is your horse sound?
        "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
        ---
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
          Is your horse sound?
          I'm sorry, I wondered the same thing!

          Your mare is cute. Congratulations on a successful showing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Left front i think.
            "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
            ---
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

            Comment


            • #7
              This video looked very close to what I was expecting except more forward (a plus.) There's a paint/hunter trainer at the barn I ride at, and most of the horses have similar tendencies to where they would look very similar if their riders tried to ride them dressage.

              The straightness issues mentioned are very important. I would also focus on suppleness and rhythm. Get her to change speeds within gaits as you ask, but keep a steady rhythm as you do so - she tended to lose hers. And bend her. A lot.

              I'm used to seeing breed hunters who have zero bend in their bodies except for crookedness one way or another. This shows up in "motorcycle" turns, in which they drop the inside shoulder, don't support themselves with their hind legs, and lack a lot of balance. A downhill build just exaggerates that problem.

              You also look like you're holding her head up and trying to see-saw her mouth to get her to bring her nose in - don't. With her build, right now lifting her head up causes the base of her neck to drop lower, making her more on the forehand instead of less. See the triangle of muscle in front of the withers which is in use here? You want her to start using that before you start bringing her head up. It indicates a lift of the base of the neck and correctly starting to carry themselves. (There's a lot wrong with the photo, too, so don't think it's an example of what a horse should ultimately look like!)
              http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1371/...2dbbf1bfd4.jpg

              Correct circling and bending will help you get straightness - you will learn to control your horse's body and get her to bring her hind legs under her through circles. I do a lot of leg yield in, leg yield out on a very large circle. The switch in direction gets them supporting themselves with the hind legs knowing they're going to have to switch their weight. Allowing her to stretch down and out when you ride (which she will start to want to do as you get her bending her body correctly), then starting to hold with your hands and push her into them with your legs once she gets a rhythm will get her to start to round herself and lift her front end without you having to seesaw or hold her head up yourself. You don't want to try to "set" her head for sure - which can be hard for a former hunter rider to remember! If you do, you'll hamper her ability to improve.

              All those are things to work on - but in no way mean you have a bad start! The levels exist because we all have to learn and work our way up them if we want to really learn, and so do our horses. I think she's cute, and if you acknowledge her conformation but work with it instead of against it (my comments about not holding up her head, for example) I think she may surprise you with what she can do! The strong QH hind end can compensate for a lot of conformation flaws.

              Good luck, and good for you - sounds like it was a good show season together, and like you're having fun!
              If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
              -meupatdoes

              Comment


              • #8
                EqT I'm going to bet my 50 cents on rein lame.... could be left front though too.
                what I picked up on was braced right arm and a locked right jaw on the horse. not sure which is perpetuating which.
                bring the bottoms of your shoulder blades down and back.
                you also pop your left elbow as a result of not sinking into your left seat bone.
                turn your leg in at the hip so that it can lie flat against the horse, and your toe point forward

                I get the very strong impression lateral suppleness and flexion are not practiced very much at home, either that or your mind goes blank on how to ask her to bend around your leg (that happened to me at my last show, and we do all sorts of lateral)
                www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                chaque pas est fait ensemble

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you for a wonderful video
                  You don't mention how often you ride, train etc so I'll assume it's weekly lessons etc & I suspect you & your horse have come a long way since the beginning, so a well deserved round of applause

                  There's a QH paint at the barn that spent a couple years looking much like your mare, in the last year he's started looking so much more supple & using his back properly
                  1) getting the owner rider working him 10-20 minutes on the longe before riding (under trainer's guidance initially - working on impulsion & rhythm & flexing & responsiveness to the aids & some time with side reins)
                  2) having the owner start each ride with side reins (max 10-15min) so she could feel the difference & he learned to stop taking advantage of his owner
                  3) having a more advanced (dressage) rider on him intermittently (not the trainer just a young rider at the barn that is talented & very focussed on dressage & having the horse moving correctly)

                  For yourself, do you lesson on other horses?

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
                    Is your horse sound?
                    My mare did tear her left front check ligament (badly) a few years ago - 9 month lay-up. She also had a puncture wound right below her knee on the front left this summer. She has arthritis in that knee and her hocks too for which she gets injections and is on Cosequin.

                    In summary, she does have on-going issues with the left front, but my vet thinks she is sound enough to continue to do what I'm doing with her. I almost always have him do a lameness exam when he's out - still paranoid about the check ligament issue.
                    Last edited by paintlady; Dec. 21, 2010, 10:11 AM.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by alto View Post
                      Thank you for a wonderful video
                      You don't mention how often you ride, train etc so I'll assume it's weekly lessons etc & I suspect you & your horse have come a long way since the beginning, so a well deserved round of applause

                      For yourself, do you lesson on other horses?
                      I ride about 2-3x per week. I take lessons 2x per month.

                      My mare has come a very long way. Her sire was a multiplue national champion in H/J, but the breeder didn't think she had potential for showing. She didn't even start her until she was 4 y/o and sold her to be a trail horse. She was extremely green when I bought her. So, any holes in her training are completely my fault.

                      My mare is extremely smart, stubborn and senstive rolled into one. I've had her 9 years. I'd say that I only earned her respect about 3-4 years ago. Even then, she doesn't always like to listen to me.

                      I haven't really ridden other horses in the past 9 years. Before then, I took about 15-20 years of weekly H/J lessons on school horses. I board at a small private barn - not a lesson/training barn. My trainer comes to my barn for lessons, so there aren't other horses for me to ride.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                        I get the very strong impression lateral suppleness and flexion are not practiced very much at home, either that or your mind goes blank on how to ask her to bend around your leg (that happened to me at my last show, and we do all sorts of lateral)
                        Actually, we've been practicing this quite a bit at home lately. Unfortunately, my mind does tend to go blank once I enter the show ring. Half the time, I'm just hoping my mare will stay in control and not try to run out of the ring (which she has attempted to do before). For example, I know that my mare got too "quick legged" during our tests. I totally know how to handle that at home, but don't know why I didn't correct it during the show.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi there, very brave to post! She is a cute horse, and you are a quiet, nice, upright rider. Very good halt on the first entry.

                          There are some things to improve:

                          1. she needs to move much more forward over the ground, at times the trot is barely a jog. I would do many circles, trot half circle, canter half, work up to canter 1/4, trot 1/4, etc. Lots of "almost walk" half halts, then really forward (from a light leg- not repeated squeezing)

                          2. She really needs lateral flexion and balance. You are holding her out on the circles and in the corners, and on the rail by keeping her counter-bent (bent to the outside). It is probably unconscious, most hunter riders (me too in the past) do that to keep the stiffish horse from falling in on the circle and corner. This also makes the canter transitions more difficult. The head up, fall on the shoulder is not about where your legs are, but about her being able to move away from the inside leg to the outside rein, flex to the inside, and canter. lots of transitons on the circle again. Leg yield is really helpful here. Work on spiral in/out at all gaits. Really insist that she cross over and move away from the leg. Often a "head to the wall leg yield" then asking for true bend helps teach them the concept of being ON the outside rein, flexion inside.

                          3. Working on lateral bend and balance will also help her move more through her body, and then help impulsion, suspension, and carrying on the hind legs. From this, she then needs to be on the bit, she is upside down most of the time right now. All of the above work will help to get there.

                          Best of luck, she is very attractive.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I enjoyed your post-I really have no advice as I'm a newbie trying to navigate the training level tests as well! I did notice that your horse has a beautiful tail. What product do you use?

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by mickeydoodle View Post
                              Very good halt on the first entry.
                              Thank you for that! My mare lacks patience, so getting that halt quiet has been a battle. Do you believe that the judge gave us a 6 on all our halts in both tests? That is the only score that really bothered me - mostly because I, too, felt the first halt was far superior to our other 3.

                              Thanks also to everyone for the feedback. I do appreciate the comments. My mare has had no real formal training. Dressage is still relatively new to me too. It's also hard to turn a horse that measures 15.1hh at the withers and 15.3hh at the butt into a dressage queen.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Sunshine66 View Post
                                I did notice that your horse has a beautiful tail. What product do you use?
                                Her tail has always been her most noticed feature - other than her one blue eye. I don't do anything special - no tail bags, etc. I just comb it using Cowboy Magic the day of the show.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by paintlady View Post
                                  Thanks also to everyone for the feedback. I do appreciate the comments. My mare has had no real formal training. Dressage is still relatively new to me too. It's also hard to turn a horse that measures 15.1hh at the withers and 15.3hh at the butt into a dressage queen.
                                  She just has to be extra regal!

                                  Good luck in your dressage instructor hunt. Remember that you are looking to pay someone to work for you, so if you find someone who looks down his/her nose at you for having a paint or in any way makes you feel inferior - why bother? A good instructor will answer whatever questions you have, and try to explain things as much as you want explained. And at your level, you don't necessarily need an upper level trainer yet - but the upper level trainers CAN be awesome for those of us who know considerably less, too.

                                  Can you tell I know some instructors who suck the fun out of things? I know others who end up with fearful scared students. Yuck to all of them!
                                  If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                                  -meupatdoes

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by netg View Post
                                    She just has to be extra regal!

                                    Good luck in your dressage instructor hunt. Remember that you are looking to pay someone to work for you, so if you find someone who looks down his/her nose at you for having a paint or in any way makes you feel inferior - why bother? A good instructor will answer whatever questions you have, and try to explain things as much as you want explained. And at your level, you don't necessarily need an upper level trainer yet - but the upper level trainers CAN be awesome for those of us who know considerably less, too.

                                    Can you tell I know some instructors who suck the fun out of things? I know others who end up with fearful scared students. Yuck to all of them!
                                    I actually already have a wonderful instructor. She is a former Dutch National Champion and is GREAT with my little mare. I wish I had more time and money for lessons - but 2x month is what I can handle.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by paintlady View Post
                                      I actually already have a wonderful instructor. She is a former Dutch National Champion and is GREAT with my little mare. I wish I had more time and money for lessons - but 2x month is what I can handle.
                                      Oops, sorry! I did read you saying that... not sure which thread I confused this with where someone was on the instructor hunt!


                                      Discuss with her maybe if it would be in your best interest to have a mini "boot camp" where you save up and do a bunch of lessons in a row? That's something which definitely depends on an individual, but a condensed series of lessons instead of lessons spread out can help jumpstart progress for a lot of people which might help you, too. (I usually am not helped by it - so I'm not claiming it IS the answer - I just know a lot of people are helped by doing that.)
                                      If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                                      -meupatdoes

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I agree with shortening your stirrups. The lengthening of the stirrups will come as you get stronger in the saddle. Until then, keep them a good length so that you canUSE them as a solid base. Having to reach for them only swings your lower leg around. (BTDT!)

                                        IMO, after you make sure the mare is 100% comfortable for the work, I'd work on making her accept the rhythm that I expect, by slowing my posting and being aware at all times of asking for a different tempo from the one she wants to go in. This willmake her hind legs work harder and she willhave to balance herself more instead of just running foreward.

                                        I'd also begin to work on teaching her that legs also mean bend, and move away.

                                        Have your instructor work with you on spiraling out, leg yield, turn on the forehand, and how to turn a horse using the OUTSIDE aids, and work on that at walk and at trot.

                                        After the mare becomes more flexible in her body, you'll have not only your rein aids, but also your seat,leg and weight aids to guide her through your tests and your scores will go up as your tests become more precise.

                                        Also, the less you need to "steer" with your hands, the more refined your rein aids can become that invite her to begin to give in the jaw and become a bit rounder, as her conformation allows. Add that to the fact that she will have begun carrying a bit more weight behind instead of running in the trot, and you will have a much nicer, more comfortable and healthier outline for your mare.

                                        Thumbs on top and closed. Elbows by your sides. Decide on the "correct" rein length and don't keep adjusting as the mare pulls the reins away from you and then you end up reeling the reinbackin. (We alldo it, don't worry!). Keep your thumbs closed and use your legs to ask for MORE, but slower. Gentle half halts without giving the rein away.

                                        Yes, long road, isn't it????

                                        NJR
                                        PS...does your instructor ever get on? Sometimes when we see just what our horses CAN do under another rider, we realize that they've been suckering us a little bit and it elps to makes us ask for just that little bit more that makes the difference. I know my horse is happy to see me after my trainer has ridden her!
                                        Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.

                                        Comment

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