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Dressage Today's Reader's Reports: Jean Luc Cornille

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  • Dressage Today's Reader's Reports: Jean Luc Cornille

    http://readersreport.blogs.equisearch.com/

    Not gonna lie, I wrote it But just wanted to pass this on from Dressage Today since I was the first of their reader reports.

    Plus, Jean Luc Cornille was amazing to watch/learn from! He's back in Eastern North Carolina this weekend (Dover) but I'm not sure if I'll get to go see him. If anyone wants to see him, visit edctsa.org

  • #2
    Very well written!

    Lots of food for thought there, particularly about the forelegs creating the upward vertical movement.
    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget your perfect offering
    There is a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in.

    Comment


    • #3
      Super well written article. I love that the exercises were very detailed.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thank you both!

        I wish the coordinating photos ran with the exercise sequences, but I'm just happy to see the story out there.

        Jean Luc really has some very interesting theories and puts them to practice.

        I gotta admit that after this clinic, I ran to the barn to try the first exercise on my horse and got immediate results (so long as I could keep her from counter bending lol)

        Mel, I never thought of it that way before the clinic! And since I've been very careful to watch more carefully and I'm starting to become a believer.

        My favorite was his ideas about moving with the horse and not moving too much, and about the suspension being natural in all horses.

        Comment


        • #5
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXpTq37-MxA

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Diskretion View Post
            Sorry for the girl, sore for the horse.

            At least, I'm putting videos of the master:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN56rinc4E0
            Last edited by alibi_18; Oct. 13, 2010, 11:35 AM. Reason: better video.
            ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

            Originally posted by LauraKY
            I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
            HORSING mobile training app

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Yeah I don't take much stock in what a clinician's clients look like. They can't immediately transform a rider or a horse, but they can give tools for a horse to improve.

              If the clients can afford the clinic, they get a spot, and the clinician then has to work within their knowledge/limitations to get some sort of improvement, or work towards an improvement.

              I once saw a dressage clinician have to work an entire hour with a lady who was riding in a hunt seat saddle and had extreme position issues. Because he couldn't fix all that in an hour, he worked mainly on having her horse soften to contact and that was it. And that entire session was ugly, ugly, ugly lol

              I don't think JLC is a miracle worker, but I think he has good knowledge to share, especially in relation to the biomechanics of the horse.

              So glad you posted a video of him riding! I actually only saw him briefly on one horse who was being ... a little resistant lol (not JLC's fault). Love that video, thank you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AzuWish View Post
                Yeah I don't take much stock in what a clinician's clients look like. They can't immediately transform a rider or a horse, but they can give tools for a horse to improve.

                If the clients can afford the clinic, they get a spot, and the clinician then has to work within their knowledge/limitations to get some sort of improvement, or work towards an improvement.

                I once saw a dressage clinician have to work an entire hour with a lady who was riding in a hunt seat saddle and had extreme position issues. Because he couldn't fix all that in an hour, he worked mainly on having her horse soften to contact and that was it. And that entire session was ugly, ugly, ugly lol

                I don't think JLC is a miracle worker, but I think he has good knowledge to share, especially in relation to the biomechanics of the horse.

                So glad you posted a video of him riding! I actually only saw him briefly on one horse who was being ... a little resistant lol (not JLC's fault). Love that video, thank you.
                Just to clarify...I was being sarcastic.
                And just listening to the comments being given in this girl's video gives me goosebumps. sorry.
                ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                Originally posted by LauraKY
                I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                HORSING mobile training app

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
                  Just to clarify...I was being sarcastic.
                  And just listening to the comments being given in this girl's video gives me goosebumps. sorry.
                  Awwww I can't listen (at work) so can't hear what he's saying. I just see a confused girl and confused horse (something I see sometimes at clinics, unfortunately).

                  Sorry for the misunderstanding
                  Last edited by AzuWish; Oct. 13, 2010, 12:14 PM. Reason: because it was misleading ("frequently" to "sometimes" since I don't see it every clinic)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think it's good for people to question, to think outside the box and to try to understand how things work ... to maybe improve certain things.

                    However, I don't think that calling the entire training pyramid a tomb is the way to go!

                    There is always room for improvement in anything... being opened to new ideas will almost always lead you to understand something better, to work things a little differently and to ultimatly get closer to your goal, whatever it may be.

                    I just find that with this particular clinician, although the ideas do make some sense, the "putting into practice" part of his teachings often leads to things I try to avoid when riding.

                    Being underpaced often leads to hallow backs - there may be some riders out there who can slow down their mounts and keep their backs and put this into practice... but 90% of rider who will try this will probably cause more trouble than anything esle.

                    Take a little - leave a little is what I always say!

                    This article did make me take a look at what goes under the saddle and that's never a waste of time - even if I don't agree.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I'm glad to see it sparking conversation It would be dull if everyone agreed on training methods for horses!

                      I always really enjoy seeing clinicians and trying to understand their methods in the context of their view of the horse. I always have to run home and try out new and fun things.

                      I must say I did try the whole in hand thing he does (placing fist at base of neck/withers) and couldn't get it to work for the life of me! I tried for a few days in a row and finally abandoned the endeavor lol

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Very well written and definitely some food for thought there...I'm fascinated by the biomechanics of riding (dressage in particular). Now I feel all guilty for having tension in my back and legs, LOL! Poor Zoe!

                        Seriously though, a lot of what he is saying makes sense! I want to try the lifting exercise tonight!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXpTq37-MxA
                          O.K. I give up. What's he saying "Yes, yes, yes" to?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            None of this is what I would like to see represent the French classical school. Look to the thankfully many vids of Nuno that are n ow up or PK's. You will not see this. This kind of thing is why French classical and Baucherism are so very misunderstood and debated.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              well.....if what is written is what his theory is then i dissagree with a lot of what was written.

                              anyone who says the hind legs dont provide vertical lift has never seen a jumper OR a horse doing the high school jumps.

                              anyone who says a horse cant carry of its back legs more weight is also mistaken. piaffe leads directly to levade. levade = carrying all weight on hind legs.

                              JLC did a video about a lame horse. i never did agree with anything he said about that horse or where the lameness was.

                              i do agree that we need to train within the horses nature.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                the most basic thing is relaxation and rhythm - if the horse has neither that should be the first order of business - not sitting or practicing sitting or collecting etc.

                                oh, but he doesn't believe in the training scale....

                                hmmmmm...

                                ok, well to me it would be super obvious that a tight back and unlevel horse cant work correctly. address that first.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  ...or where the lameness was...
                                  The lameness came from above.

                                  How can someone be possibly against the training scale pyramide? I believe people can be against harsh training method, rollkur, any forms of gadgets and so on but being against Rythm & Regularity?Relaxation?Contact?Impulsion?Straightne ss?Collection? Can I ask WHY?
                                  French, German, Portuguese, Western, Jumpers, Drivers...all of them are looking for that, in their own different way but still...

                                  And as far as I’m concerned, from what I can read in your article (which seems to be a copy/paste for most part of his website) he IS using the training scale.

                                  ...First, we’ll explore cadence and straightness as necessary building blocks to improve any horse…
                                  …Straightness of the horse is pivotal for improving gait…
                                  …Your straightness is in correlation to the hind legs,” Jean Luc said. “You just think you are a corridor.”
                                  In other words, resist against movement that is not straight and forward…
                                  Next.

                                  …As more weight is transferred to the forehand, cadence issues and flat gaits result.
                                  To understand how to ride the horse and prevent too much weight on the forelegs, preserving the integrity of the gait, the rider must understand the movement of the horse’s back…
                                  Then he doesn’t dare to say where the weight goes (or should go) when the shoulders are lifted…Oh wait! The reaching deeper underneath?!?! Doesn’t that mean putting some weight on the hind legs?!?!

                                  …the shoulder-in lifts the base of the neck for the horse. It also asks the horse to reach deeper underneath himself with the inside hind leg…It was balance control…
                                  But he doesn’t say HOW to lift the shoulders….Oh wait again! Shoulder-in!!!!

                                  …shoulder-in prepares the horse for the canter by lifting the shoulders and asking him to step underneath himsel…
                                  Again, stepping underneath, using the hind legs in order to get the front legs moving properly!? So where is the damn weight should be? In the middle of the horse’s back?

                                  Too bad most of his followers aren’t ready for collection yet, we would have had more to discuss.
                                  ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                  Originally posted by LauraKY
                                  I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                  HORSING mobile training app

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Alibi, as an observer, I think his method really isn't different at all from the training scale ... just a new way of looking at it. For all his bravado of saying it is a tomb, what he really means is that not fully understanding the true concepts behind it is a tomb.

                                    So when he says stuff like getting optimum cadence (rhythm) and the relaxed, swinging back (relaxation) and straightness (lol straightness), it really isn't different. It's just a way of thinking about the pyramid in a different light, if that makes sense. Just like he has a different way of thinking about the way the horse moves and how to enhance that.

                                    Again, I'm just an observer. Critiquing his methods would be an entirely different story and well beyond my abilities as a writer And I hope no one thinks I'm a spokesperson for him. I enjoyed his clinic and learned new things, yes, but I'm neither a supporter nor a detractor.

                                    As for copy and pasting from the website, I assure I did not (I did grab his biography from his website to add to the information I had gotten so he didn't have to be like "I went to this school at this time" etc.). I have the notebooks to prove it. But when you have an instructor, they say a lot of the same things in their literature, at their clinic, in interviews and over e-mail.

                                    Gosh, you know, I'm really trying not to be offended by your statement because I don't mind someone criticizing my work, but that did touch a nerve to accuse me of plagiarizing and not doing my work ... that's about the biggest insult you can give a professional writer.

                                    If you would like to critique my work, please feel free. The story isn't perfect (I've caught a few typos since it went up on the site) and I'm not the perfect writer. If you would like to critique the clinician, again, feel free.

                                    But please do not accuse me of unethical practices.
                                    Last edited by AzuWish; Oct. 14, 2010, 12:25 PM. Reason: clarification

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Sorry, I will rephrase what I meant to say because I don't like being/sounding too rude: Your article can only look like his website/videos/writtings because there is nothing else to be said about what he does/say. Always the same, lots of big words, few of contents.

                                      I don't believe you had any unethical practices. But yes, one could think you are one of his believers...as that is the kind of thing they do on few BBs.
                                      ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                      Originally posted by LauraKY
                                      I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                      HORSING mobile training app

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I have to agree, Alibi, to claim that a writer did a copy/paste, without BEING SURE OF THAT, is quite insulting.

                                        I don't know anything about JLC. I didn't like what I saw in the videos. But it was quite clear to me that the writer was describing what she experienced at a clinic, and thinking about it with critical interest, not as a "believer."

                                        Nice of you to apologize; hope you will slow down next time and read a bit more thoroughly before throwing out a serious accusation about someone else's writing in such a casual way.
                                        Ring the bells that still can ring
                                        Forget your perfect offering
                                        There is a crack in everything
                                        That's how the light gets in.

                                        Comment

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